Contract Lengths (Merged)

[slacker]

What's the minimum contract length for someone joining as a private with no prior experience?

 

[kincanucks]

For Regular Force it depends on the occupation and varies from 3 to 5 years now.

 

[slacker]

Hmm...  Food for thought.

I'm interested in joining when I finish highschool, but three years is a long time.  Supposing I join and after a couple years can't stand it for whatever reason, do I have any recourse?

 

[George Wallace]

As you grow up, and enter into Adulthood, you must learn to do grown up things.  You will sign a Three Year Contract and will be held to that.  It is a Legal and Binding Document, that you can learn how life as a grown up is like.  Can you 'Break' this Contract?  Yes, you can.  There are several ways, some legal, some not.  You may get a Medical Release.  That is one legal way.  You can Desert.  That would be the illegal way.  You may have reason for a Compassionate Release, or perhaps be a Training Failure, or an Administrative Burden.  Perhaps you will be in a Trade that is 'overborne' or now being downsized or eliminated and you may be offered a 'buy out'.  Most often, though, you will be held to the contract that you sign.

 

[slacker]

I assure you I wasn't looking for anything less than a legitimate exit if it were to become a problem.  Also, I don't equate adulthood with gambling away three years.  If I'd been in the army three years already, or knew a single soul who had been, it might be a little bit more of an informed decision.
But it isn't, and three years is a long enough time that a pat on the back isn't quite sufficient motivation.  Needless to say I am still interested, but it bears thinking about. 

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

One way you can look at it is 3 years out of lets say the average 76 year life span is not a great commitment. In that 3 years you will be housed fed and paid pretty well.You can have any education furthurance paid for, you will make alot of great friends, see the world and serve your country.After 3 years your experience with the CF will stand out on a resume above all else and you will have more "ammunition" under your belt to make an informed decision as to what you want out of life.

But as you stated, all you get is a pat on the back and I guess Mcdonalds and pogey checks is just as good.

 

[George Wallace]

Slacker

I think you missed the point on "Contract" and the responsibility of one to honour their "Contract".  No matter where you go in your adult life, you will be 'contractly' bond to something; work, purchases, renting, using the internet, basically everything that you do is regulated by a contract of some sort.  The way that you honour your contracts will measure what type of person you are.

As for a three year contract in the CF; although some portions of it may seem like it will last forever, it will be over before you will even know it.  SHELLDRAKE made some good points of what to expect in that case.

 

[Fusilier]

Greetings all, just to jump in here...Effective 1 May 05 the CF has made some significant changes to the Terms of Service (TOS).  The term "contract" is misleading as it implies a binding agreement, legally enforceable.  So in typical CF style it is not a "contract" it's a Term of Service:

"TOS is an agreement between a member and the CF to provide military service until lawfully released.  TOS provides a framework for the training, employment and personnel development requirements of the CF.  The TOS consists of two parts, ie; a structure and series of control processes.  The policies associated with the TOS define the conditions for converting a member's term of service."

So what this means.... when you enroll you will sign a Term of Service (TOS) called a Variable Initial Engagement (VIE)  ??? "the VIE is the new intial engagement for members of the Reg Force.  The duration of the VIE normally ranges from a minimum of 3 yrs to a max of 9 years, excluding subsidized training."

Example:  You enrol as an infanteer it's estimated that it will take 0-199 training days to bring you to your Operationally Functional Point (OFP), therefore your VIE is for three years.  However, say you enrol as a medic, it's estimated that it will take 400+ training days to bring you to OFP so therefore you sign a VIE of 6 yrs.  Think of it as we're spending x $$ in training you, providing equipment etc so once you have completed training we still get our "pound of flesh" for the investment made in you. 

But what if I decide I hate it..let me out please!!

In accordance with the release policies

" a member who requests voluntary release while undergoing basic military occupational training will not receive approval unless military and personal requirements are compatible.  This policy will continue to be enforced.  Strong communication is necessary to ensure that potential candidates understand the difference between the restricted release policy, obligatory service and TOS, especially VIE.  Once the period of restricted release or obligatory service is completed, a member may request release, even before the expiry of a VIE."  ??? so, depending on circumstances you may be able to release prior to the end of your contract..oops Term of Service.

Hope this makes some sense to you, effectively this means you need to consider carefully your future, your choice of military occupation and your commitment to the forces.  George is right, sometimes it feels like forever and sometimes it's gone in a blink...

Good luck Slacker with whatever you choose.

Slacker

I think you missed the point on "Contract" and the responsibility of one to honour their "Contract".   No matter where you go in your adult life, you will be 'contractly' bond to something; work, purchases, renting, using the internet, basically everything that you do is regulated by a contract of some sort.   The way that you honour your contracts will measure what type of person you are.

As for a three year contract in the CF; although some portions of it may seem like it will last forever, it will be over before you will even know it.   SHELLDRAKE made some good points of what to expect in that case.

 

[Seaman_Navy]

Some people told me the initial contract (for NCM) can be up to 7 years depending the trade you are ? Is it possible or it doesn't happen really often?

 

[George Wallace]

The Contract for Service is being modified as the Terms of Service are being changed.   What you used to find was two Three Year Contracts and then the opportunity for a longer Contract, if your 'skills' were what your trade 'wanted'.   That way after three and six years, if you were not what they wanted due to poor work ethic, medical, financial or other problems, you would not be offered another Contract.   If they deemed you a suitable candidate for further employment, you would get to sign a Contract to take you to 20 years of Service.   Now the whole procedure is changing and people are now serving 25 years.   This further complicates the Pension Plan and it to has to be reformed to reflect changes in the Terms of Service Contracts.

Fun.....ain't it.... ;D

[Edit]  I joined under the "20/40 Plan", where I was to serve 20 years or until I was 40, whichever came last.  Times have changed since then (a couple of times in fact).

 

[Zombie]

However, say you enrol as a medic, it's estimated that it will take 400+ training days to bring you to OFP so therefore you sign a VIE of 6 yrs.

Is 6 years years the actual Term of Service (or VIE) for newly enrolled Medical Technicians? Just curious to know, as I was under the assumption it was 3 years, and if it is 6, it's a good thing to realize as I'm preparing for this trade.

 

[Pea]

Is 6 years years the actual Term of Service (or VIE) for newly enrolled Medical Technicians? Just curious to know, as I was under the assumption it was 3 years, and if it is 6, it's a good thing to realize as I'm preparing for this trade.

That is exactly what I am wondering now. I was also under the impression that it was 3 years. Definitely a good thing to know as I am hoping for this trade as well.

 

[Rebel_RN]

In an instance such as this the best thing to do is talk with your RC, get the answers you may need or want before you submit anything. That way you are making an informed decision and don't have to pull out the " Golly gee I didn't know it would be this long" song and dance. Ultimately it is you are responsible to know these things before you sign on the dotted line in any scenario.

 

[Pea]

In an instance such as this the best thing to do is talk with your RC, get the answers you may need or want before you submit anything. That way you are making an informed decision and don't have to pull out the " Golly gee I didn't know it would be this long" song and dance. Ultimately it is you are responsible to know these things before you sign on the dotted line in any scenario.

Thats what I was planning to do on Tuesday when I go in. I was however told that it was 3 years for a Medical Technician by a Recruiter, which is why I was under that impression. But that was a little while ago, so maybe it has changed. Oh well, no worries. I want this trade, so it doesn't affect whether or not I will join.

Thanks.

 

[Zombie]

In an instance such as this the best thing to do is talk with your RC, get the answers you may need or want before you submit anything. That way you are making an informed decision and don't have to pull out the " Golly gee I didn't know it would be this long" song and dance. Ultimately it is you are responsible to know these things before you sign on the dotted line in any scenario.

The first time I've questioned the term of service for a Med Tech was when I read this thread, so I have not had an opportunity to ask a recruiter. I also want this trade regardless, however as I said, it is good to know now. I'm sure I would know the actual length of service before signing anything anyway, just thought Fusilier may be able to inform as to whether he was stating the actual TOS for a Med Tech or just providing a random example that may not always be correct.

 

[Fry]

What's the minimum number of years for the initial "contract" or terms of service, for the occupation "Armoured Soldier" ?

 

[Fusilier]

The first time I've questioned the term of service for a Med Tech was when I read this thread, so I have not had an opportunity to ask a recruiter. I also want this trade regardless, however as I said, it is good to know now. I'm sure I would know the actual length of service before signing anything anyway, just thought Fusilier may be able to inform as to whether he was stating the actual TOS for a Med Tech or just providing a random example that may not always be correct.

To All, yes I was stating the actual TOS.  Effective 1 May 05 everything changed that is why some of you were probably told by your recruiters that your first TOS was 3 years.

So here's some answers for you...

737 Med Tech - first TOS = VIE of 6 yrs, second TOS IE of 25 (this means you serve 6 yrs and then if you wish to stay in you then sign a TOS 25 bringing your TOTAL service to 25 years)

011 Crewman (Armoured) - first TOS = VIE of 5 yrs, second TOS is a CE (Continuing Engagement) of 4 yrs, third TOS = IE 25

411 Vehicle Technician - first TOS = VIE of 4 yrs, second TOS is a CE of 5 yrs and third TOS = IE 25 yrs

I know it's confusing, but just ask your recruiter or feel free to ask here.  I deal with this stuff all the time!!  Remember, Med Tech is a technical trade so you may give 6 yrs but a good chunk of that is the army training you.  After 6 yrs if you decide to leave you should be the rank of Corporal and have some good training, maybe even a tour down range.

 

[Spartan]

Is there a master list available on nonDIN websites that might outline the different trades and contract lengths?

 

[Fusilier]

Sorry there is no master list avail, if anyone is interested in the TOS for officers plse let me know

 

[Pieman]

Fusilier, if it is not too much trouble I would like to see TOS for the different Officer postions.