Crash Landing; The Passionate Eye-CBC

[Elisha]

Tonight November 10th, there is a documentary on PSTD and the Canadian Armed Forces.  I know that this has been a taboo subject for some time now and I am glad that someone has decided to do a documentary on the subject.  I know some people both current and retired service members that appear to suffer from this evil they call PTSD. 

Definatly something I want to watch.

It is on 9pm ET I believe and there is a reshow on Monday November 14th at 10pm ET.


Elisha

 

[Sig_Des]

Excellent Documentary, highly suggest that you take the time to watch and/or tape it

 

[3rd Horseman]

Thanks for the info, I will be tuned in as a PTSD survivor, and give my comments on the thread after I watch.

 

[Sig_Des]

details about the film can be found at:

http://www.erezi.ca/content/blogcategory/11/18/lang,en/

 

[3rd Horseman]

Well I watched it.........I am split on my opinion, liked parts didn't like others I will need time to digest it all.

Nice to see it portrayed on TV though and a good film but I currently think they missed the point Let me think awhile... :-\

 

[Tracker 23A]

The issue of PTSD is so controversial that I won't even hazard my opinion on the situations that were depicted. 

I understand everyone handles stress their own way, but some of the situations that were discussed.....

 

[Elisha]

I liked the show...and like some of you all said...stress is different for everyone and these cases seemed to be very extreme in nature.  Definatly glad more people are coming forward to discuss the issues of this.


Elisha

 

[GO!!!]

Interesting documentary.

1. Apparently only francophones and women serve in dangerous theatres and get stressed though - they are such a tiny minority - and not the most recent examples either, we have plenty of messed up troops from ops more recent than 1995.

2. After speaking with members of my family, all were surprised that few of the troops interviewed actually experienced any type of hostile action or outright violence. This documentary seemed to concentrate on events that I would consider commonplace, given my experiences whilst deployed, and the extreme reactions certain individuals had to them.

3. I was also surprised that the documentary did not address the phenomenon that the highest incidences of PTSD are in CSS units and not Cbt Arms units. The reasons I have read for this include the better sense of teamwork and camraderie (providing support) that often exists in cbt arms units, and a propensity to conceal psychological problems in them.

4. The ugly secret that no one seems to want to talk about is the people who take advantage of the system when they are perhaps not as affected as they claim to be. Why are we so reluctant to bring this up? I'm sorry, but several of the (PTSD creating) situations that the people involved in that documentary made me laugh.

I'm throwing these points out for general discussion, so please leave the "stress affects everyone differently" argument out of this, and, for the record, I know LOTS of people who are profoundly affected by their conditions of service (myself included), but live with their problems in order to continue doing the job that so many of the people in this documentary left at the first chance they had to do so.

 

[Zarathustra]

several of the (PTSD creating) situations that the people involved in that documentary made me laugh.

Have you been in similar situations ? (Rape attempt/threat, execution simulation, witness of friend murder, use of mine detection equipment without training in actual mine field.)

 

[GO!!!]

Have you been in similar situations ? (Rape attempt/threat, execution simulation, witness of friend murder, use of mine detection equipment without training in actual mine field.)

In fact I have!

I, and many others have witnessed death, suffering, and done things like patrol through minefields, have angry, high locals wave guns at me and had to beat back an angry, armed mob when outnumbered 5 to 1. Cleaned up after an IED and seen the results of minestrikes, I've had serious injuries, gotten tropical diseases and parasites too.

Do I have enough experience to comment on this documentary yet?  :

 

[3rd Horseman]

Go,  you said it all, I completely agree I have been thinking the same thing and could not find the words to put it down since I was so mad evertime I thought about what to write. Thankyou for saying what all of us with Combat Stress (not PTSD) are thinking about.

  Let me through out another viewpoint, Do you think that doctors, social workers and psychologist's are now using PTSD as a way to fill there practices thus issuing  questionable diagnosis to ensure they get paid?

 

[kcdist]

Interesting topic, PTSD.

Interesting documentary.
4. The ugly secret that no one seems to want to talk about is the people who take advantage of the system when they are perhaps not as affected as they claim to be. Why are we so reluctant to bring this up? I'm sorry, but several of the (PTSD creating) situations that the people involved in that documentary made me laugh.

GO, I have to agree with you wholeheartedly. You have touched on the 3rd rail of military mental health. Although I do not dispute PTSD exists, and that it can cause major mental heath issues, i humbly submit that the CF has embraced it to an extreme that has allowed hundreds (more?) of common run of the mill malingerers an easy meal ticket.

Although I don't possess statistics and the like, from personal experience, I believe the numbers of those claiming PTSD are completely out of whack with those that truly and honestly suffer from it. I would be interested in viewing the numbers, but I would bet a far higher percentage of REMFs, those that rarely, if ever, ventured out of the confines of Bn HQ, 'suffer' from the syndrome compared to the pointy edge infantry.

In fact, the false claims take away from the legitimate instances, and lead to the widely held assumptions, as evidenced by the 'Crazy Train' float from 2PPCLI awhile back. Just like whiplash and lower back pain, PTSD can rarely be proven or disputed, leading to the benefit of the doubt for all real and imagined sufferers.

Interesting that in my 2nd career, I and those I worked with, encountered a significant amount of grisly death, traumatic situations, life and death type of stuff, and yet, stress and/or mental heath leave only seemed to be taken a year or two prior to retirement. Funny how the mind works.  

Solution? Likely one doesn't exist...other than better and more thorough recruitment. I would like to think that personal pride and honour go a long way in preventing the false claims.

 

[GO!!!]

3rd,

I don't think that the medical professionals are misdiagnosing on purpose. I think that they feel compelled by their patients to make them.

Not everyone that is on a stress pension is a scammer - far from it, but there seems to be a fear to talk about this. Doctors (especially civy ones) don't want a military member seeking a second opinion, and many of the people involved don't really seem to have much desire to return to work. There seems to be too much of an emphasis on appeasing PTSD sufferers, and too little emphasis on assisting them to return to the state they were in prior to the injury.

I am of the opinion that anyone who wants a stress pension can get one. I heard recently of a case where basic trg stressed one individual so badly that he is now "disabled". I guess what I'm trying to say, is that there needs to be more stringent criteria for PTSD, and a "return to work" objective of the counselling.

In addition to this, the actions of one General have made the cause of PTSD an untouchable one now. If a member says he is suffering, and needs a few months off - he is, period. If he does'nt get it, then the CF has "abandoned" him, and is squandering it's soldiers mental health in a callous attempt at cost savings. This is a lose-lose for the military, and it should not be. A small percentage of PTSD sufferers may well be unemployable. These people require our sympathy and assistance. But when individuals like the abovementioned are on lifetime disability, we have swung too far the opposite way.

PTSD is an injury like any other, and most injuries can be rehabilitated the fact that most of these people are now holding down jobs and keeping their relationships together tells me that they are not a lost cause.- this is the lens through which this documentary should be viewed.

 

[3rd Horseman]

Go,

  All I can tell you is that I know of a few cases that in my expierence of PTSD are not PTSD cases and the same doc diagonosed them all. All these people never left the comfort of the front gate and came to me to chat about PTSD since they knew I had it. I told them they appeared not to have it but had other issues not accociated with the CF or PTSD and they should go see a doc but PTSD never. They went they got PTSD diagnosis and are drawing milk from the system (the nicest way I could say it). 

 

[291er]

Maybe it was just me, but I found the fact that the female who served in the Gulf on Protecteur's case a little confusing.  I was under the impression that Gulf War Syndrome had something to do with depleted uranium shells, particularly those used in tanks.  I was'nt aware that Protecteur had any tank rounds on board, and consider it unlikely because I don't think we sent any tanks for that conflict.  If I am mistaken, please someone clarify for me......It just kind of left me with a weird feeling......anyone else?
Hopefully one of the lads that was on Protecteur views this post.....I know and work with quite a few sailors, some that had been in the Gulf, and this was the first time I had ever heard of this type of thing...

 

[3rd Horseman]

Canada's Navy in the Gulf had DU rounds on board in the form of Phalanx gun rounds. The rounds are not toxic until after they are fired and come in contact with a target and ignite.

Gulf War syndrome? Who knows the US serviceman involved in the fight swear by it. As for Canada we had nil people involved in the fight except half a dozen seconded soldiers with British, French and US units. If any of them have PTSD thats fine by me but the rest.....get stuffed.

 

[NCRCrow]

The only people who touch the DU is NWT's.

I am very skeptical of the Airforce female (NG) and her claims. I personally think they(she)is/are BS. U can all attack me and call me an arsepik.

But of all the people profiled she is very suspect.

I think there is some previous history prior to her deploying. All the pipes etc.

Fast Attack Tanker? Gimme me a break!!!

 

[291er]

Crow.....I got the exact same feeling......I'm sure we've ALL met someone similar to that in our careers unfortunately.......my guess would be that maybe she had problems upstairs before she ever set foot on the Protecteur.  They say everyone reacts different to Combat Stress, however, as you said, out of all the cases, her's, by far, was the most unbelievable.  And as for the attempted raping, etc, etc......we've all heard the rumours and misconceptions of sailors being like that, and personally I think it's a load of BS.  Sure, there are ppl like that everywhere, but no particular abundance in the Navy.

I'm standing with you on this one Crow 

 

[GO!!!]

I figured I was going to get hammered for saying that this mocumentary was BS.

It is good to hear that the majority of you believe, as I do, that some of these people are, at worst, malingering, pathelogical liars, and at best, overstating their suffering for a free meal ticket.

Maybe our military is not beyond hope?

 

[3rd Horseman]

291er said 
"They say everyone reacts different to Combat Stress,"

I would like to correct this misconception from my perspective: The system is telling us this but I don't believe it (no med proof). The normal soldier trained to a normal level placed into a combat situation  that turns very bad will always get PTSD, it is the abnormal soldier (psycho) that does not get it. I think the difference is that some will come back from it faster than others based on special criteria. One criteria that is vital to a return to normal(or near normal ) is guilt....did the soldier do the right thing? if not the suffering will be worse and prolonged.

I am in agreement with you and GO and I am very pleased to see PTSD sufferers responding in such a positive way and not attacking some of the controversial statements that have been made. They need to be said even if this topic is sensitive.