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Daily wear - Work Dress vs Operational dress [Split from Sleeves up]

RocketRichard

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dapaterson said:
Or, fly to Hong Kong or Singapore and buy bespoke suits there.  They'll keep your measurements on file, and you can order new ones by email in the future.
Or, get a bit more style and go to Symons or The Bay.


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Bruce Monkhouse

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A plainclothes cop with style :rofl:.....oh, sorry, thought you were kidding. ;D
 

dapaterson

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Bruce Monkhouse said:
A plainclothes cop with style :rofl:.....oh, sorry, thought you were kidding. ;D

09_11_18_Xmas_Suits2141-Edit_Leader_large.jpg


Only not quite as classy...
 

brihard

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Easy there, gentlemen. I’ve decided I will at least get different sunglasses to wear in lieu of my M-Frames. Let’s be content with that to start.
 

Good2Golf

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Blackadder1916 said:
....

It's all those lefties wanting to do their own thing that screws up tried and accepted routine.  Next thing is probably someone wanting to pilot a helicopter from the left seat.  Madness!

Madness indeed!

(Touché ;) )
 

dapaterson

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PPCLI Guy said:
We have plenty of surveys.  All CAF members have been invited on numerous occasions to take part in them.  Automatically deleting all messages from higher or "CAF Spam" is a fine way to disenfranchise oneself, and to skew the data.

For example, this article discusses the Your Say Survey, issued regularly.  https://ml-fd.caf-fac.ca/en/2019/03/7677
 

Pusser

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cld617 said:
If dress of the day is service dress, why should mbrs be required to wear something above that to be comfortable? Roadblock for the sake of it.

Umm, No. 3 IS service dress and was designed to be daily office wear.  People in climate controlled offices in Canada should always be in "service dress," which would be any of the various renditions of No. 3.

CF Dress Instructions (A-DH-265-000/AG-001), Chapter 5, Annex C refers.
 

Halifax Tar

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Pusser said:
Umm, No. 3 IS service dress and was designed to be daily office wear.  People in climate controlled offices in Canada should always be in "service dress," which would be any of the various renditions of No. 3.

CF Dress Instructions (A-DH-265-000/AG-001), Chapter 5, Annex C refers.

It has to be one of the most uncomfortable numbers of dress we have, IMHO.  I really hate wearing No. 3 order of dress.  Maybe I am alone, I dont know.
 

Furniture

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Halifax Tar said:
It has to be one of the most uncomfortable numbers of dress we have, IMHO.  I really hate wearing No. 3 order of dress.  Maybe I am alone, I dont know.

I love wearing No. 3s, I find it the most comfortable uniform for around an office. The only uniform I found as comfortable, but easier to wear due to a lack of real upkeep requirements is NCDs.

There is a dry cleaning pick-up/drop-off in my building, so now No. 3 is just as easy to maintain as NCDs were.
 

Blackadder1916

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Halifax Tar said:
It has to be one of the most uncomfortable numbers of dress we have, IMHO.  I really hate wearing No. 3 order of dress.  Maybe I am alone, I dont know.

It's trousers and a short sleeve shirt with a collar.  What makes it "most uncomfortable" as compared to . . .  say . . . the civvies that you would wear if you were taking the wife (or girlfriend, or both if living dangerously) out for an evening of dining, dancing and a little bit of "how's your father".
 

Halifax Tar

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Furniture said:
I love wearing No. 3s, I find it the most comfortable uniform for around an office. The only uniform I found as comfortable, but easier to wear due to a lack of real upkeep requirements is NCDs.

There is a dry cleaning pick-up/drop-off in my building, so now No. 3 is just as easy to maintain as NCDs were.

I like my NCDs as well.  I find after a few washes they become very comfortable.  The No. 3s I just dont feel comfortable in and honestly dread anytime I am told its the DotD.  Thankfully I can pretty well stay on ship for the foreseeable future so those days should be few and far between.

Blackadder1916 said:
It's trousers and a short sleeve shirt with a collar.  What makes it "most uncomfortable" as compared to . . .  say . . . the civvies that you would wear if you were taking the wife (or girlfriend, or both if living dangerously) out for an evening of dining, dancing and a little bit of "how's your father".

I find them uncomfortable and the upkeep isn't my cup of tea.  My wifes idea of a nice night out is Swiss Chalet followed by a walk with the dogs and kiddo.  Or we head to our camp in the woods.  I lucked out.  I found a low maintenance easy going lady :)
 

Pusser

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Halifax Tar said:
It has to be one of the most uncomfortable numbers of dress we have, IMHO.  I really hate wearing No. 3 order of dress.  Maybe I am alone, I dont know.

If any uniform is uncomfortable, then it doesn't fit properly.  That is easily fixed.  NCDs consists of shirt, trousers and optional jacket.  No.3 consists of shirt, trousers and optional jackets/sweater.  Really, what's the difference?  What's worse is the fact that personnel are wearing out the most expensive clothing in the CAF, sitting at desks in air-conditioned offices.  When operational clothing has to be replaced more often then not because the ass is worn out, then something is wrong. 

There was a time when officers, and many PO2s and above, only wore NCDs when the ship was off the wall.  Nowadays, we seem to think the ship will instantly burn to the waterline unless every single member of the ship's company isn't constantly wearing NCDs.
 

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Pusser said:
If any uniform is uncomfortable, then it doesn't fit properly.

Except a kilt. It should be tight...you should feel uncomfortable. It's almost like a girdle/corset combo.
 

Halifax Tar

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Pusser said:
If any uniform is uncomfortable, then it doesn't fit properly.  That is easily fixed.  NCDs consists of shirt, trousers and optional jacket.  No.3 consists of shirt, trousers and optional jackets/sweater.  Really, what's the difference?  What's worse is the fact that personnel are wearing out the most expensive clothing in the CAF, sitting at desks in air-conditioned offices.  When operational clothing has to be replaced more often then not because the *** is worn out, then something is wrong. 

There was a time when officers, and many PO2s and above, only wore NCDs when the ship was off the wall.  Nowadays, we seem to think the ship will instantly burn to the waterline unless every single member of the ship's company isn't constantly wearing NCDs.

I am not saying I am right, I am only stating my opinion.  I don't find them comfortable.  And I get overly concerned about any dirt or possibility of causing harm to them, and thats not even my whites.  Generally they go on for divisions and off as soon as possible.

I do believe shore establishments, in Halifax, require PO2s and above to wear No. 3s.  I could be wrong.

Man making anyone to have wear No. 3s as DotD on a ship is punishment.  We would defiantly need more Logistik Unicorps points.  There isn't a day that goes buy that, paint, grease or grime isn't on my uniform and I am a PO1 storesman.  Also 99.99% people wear civis to and from ship. 
 

Eye In The Sky

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Pusser said:
If any uniform is uncomfortable, then it doesn't fit properly.  That is easily fixed.  NCDs consists of shirt, trousers and optional jacket.  No.3 consists of shirt, trousers and optional jackets/sweater.  Really, what's the difference?  What's worse is the fact that personnel are wearing out the most expensive clothing in the CAF, sitting at desks in air-conditioned offices.  When operational clothing has to be replaced more often then not because the ass is worn out, then something is wrong. 

There was a time when officers, and many PO2s and above, only wore NCDs when the ship was off the wall.  Nowadays, we seem to think the ship will instantly burn to the waterline unless every single member of the ship's company isn't constantly wearing NCDs.

I can't speak for the RCN and C Army kit...but the RCAF LS and SS shirt is a gong show.  For me to get the size the fits my chest, shoulders and neck...it is ridiculously long in the sleeves and large in the waist.  Base tailors do not fit the shirts anymore I've been told....so I end up with an excessive amount of material that just ends up making my 3B look pretty unprofessional, IMO.  I will wear it only when absolutely required and I will not pay for tailoring of uniform items out of my own pocket. 

Solution: pay the tailor to tailor shirts.  I know...crazy idea.  I don't understand the logic here;  if my tunic from Logistik needs some tailoring...that's good to go.  A shirt?  Nope!  Pants...yup good to go.  ::)

 

Eye In The Sky

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Halifax Tar said:
I do believe shore establishments, in Halifax, require PO2s and above to wear No. 3s.  I could be wrong.

That's the way it was last month when I was on course there (Trinity).
 

Navy_Pete

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Pusser said:
If any uniform is uncomfortable, then it doesn't fit properly.  That is easily fixed.  NCDs consists of shirt, trousers and optional jacket.  No.3 consists of shirt, trousers and optional jackets/sweater.  Really, what's the difference?  What's worse is the fact that personnel are wearing out the most expensive clothing in the CAF, sitting at desks in air-conditioned offices.  When operational clothing has to be replaced more often then not because the *** is worn out, then something is wrong. 

There was a time when officers, and many PO2s and above, only wore NCDs when the ship was off the wall.  Nowadays, we seem to think the ship will instantly burn to the waterline unless every single member of the ship's company isn't constantly wearing NCDs.

Unless you are doing ceremonial on top part, wearing no 3s on a ship is stupid. It's an industrial environment, so NCDs with the associated steel toe boots with the oil rated soles is the minimum PPE.  With repairs and other work constantly on the go, really easy to have a bit of oil on the deck or ladders, and the oxfords/parade boots turn to ice skates.  Have personally slipped in both spots going about my day to day business as an officer on board, and probably would have had a career ending injury if I hadn't managed to grab the rungs (and smash my knees and wrench my shoulder instead of bouncing 10 ft down).  Can be a change parade, but if I had a meeting in no 3s ashore, first thing I did was put on my NCDs when I got back.

There are also all kinds of protrusions everywhere that have bits of grease on them, so even just going from A to B it's easy enough to ruin a shirt.

Would counter that if you can go the whole day onboard alongside and never be at risk of any of that, either your job should be ashore, or you aren't maybe being as active as you should in getting around and talking to people.  Although it could be kind of a nightmare, good for even the CO to walk around during the day to the various nooks and cranies to see what's actually going on (on occasion).

Work dress should be for when it's needed; we pay a lot of money to fit people out with FR clothing and train them to do first aid in an emergency, would be monumentally stupid to lose even one person to an injury in that rare event because someone though 'no 3s looked better'.  Ugh.

 

Pusser

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Navy_Pete said:
Unless you are doing ceremonial on top part, wearing no 3s on a ship is stupid. It's an industrial environment, so NCDs with the associated steel toe boots with the oil rated soles is the minimum PPE.  With repairs and other work constantly on the go, really easy to have a bit of oil on the deck or ladders, and the oxfords/parade boots turn to ice skates.  Have personally slipped in both spots going about my day to day business as an officer on board, and probably would have had a career ending injury if I hadn't managed to grab the rungs (and smash my knees and wrench my shoulder instead of bouncing 10 ft down).  Can be a change parade, but if I had a meeting in no 3s ashore, first thing I did was put on my NCDs when I got back.

There are also all kinds of protrusions everywhere that have bits of grease on them, so even just going from A to B it's easy enough to ruin a shirt.

Would counter that if you can go the whole day onboard alongside and never be at risk of any of that, either your job should be ashore, or you aren't maybe being as active as you should in getting around and talking to people.  Although it could be kind of a nightmare, good for even the CO to walk around during the day to the various nooks and cranies to see what's actually going on (on occasion).

Work dress should be for when it's needed; we pay a lot of money to fit people out with FR clothing and train them to do first aid in an emergency, would be monumentally stupid to lose even one person to an injury in that rare event because someone though 'no 3s looked better'.  Ugh.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but that is the way it was.  In many ways though, we've gone to the opposite extreme and there is room walk back the jackstay somewhat.  I will also point out that most of us had extra service dress (No. 3) that we only wore on board (especially whites) because it was stained and damaged.  The EO and CERA always wore white coveralls  when they went down in the spaces.
 

Halifax Tar

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Pusser said:
I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but that is the way it was.  In many ways though, we've gone to the opposite extreme and there is room walk back the jackstay somewhat.  I will also point out that most of us had extra service dress (No. 3) that we only wore on board (especially whites) because it was stained and damaged.  The EO and CERA always wore white coveralls  when they went down in the spaces.

How long ago did you last sail ?  I've been at sea on HMC ships since 2001 and I have never seen an EO or CERA in coveralls let alone white ones.

 
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