Detailed question about reserve training cycle for Infantry Officers

[bolt]

Greetings - I have asked the recruiters, local units in Ottawa, and searched threads...and I still do not see an answer to this question, so I hope someone out there with recent or current training data.base access can help me out.

I am in the Ottawa/Eastern Ontario area, in the final stages of coming on as a DEO Infantry Officer. For work purposes I need to have a general idea of when some of the training blocks fall as I am using some of my vacation blocks to ensure potential dates are reserved. [I can always cancel vacation if the CF training dates change.]

1. I know that BMQ/BMOQ is offered on weekends in the academic year, but does anyone know if there is one scheduled to start in January 2011? [And if so when does it run till?]

2. My understanding is that there is also a second part of BMOQ where it is just the officers (OEIP2) and that is generally a 2 week type in residence course. If that is the case, does anyone know when that is usually offered? [And my that I mean both the full-time summer Reserve BMOQ and the leadership portion.]


3. I know CAP and Dismounted Platoon Commander qualifications come next. Does anyone know if there is a fall CAP scheduled for 2011 yet, or when the usual time frame is if offered in the fall?

I know that it may still be early for schedules to be posted or confirmed, but my assumption is that for efficiency and planning purposes many of the courses will follow a relatively predictable cycle in terms of what months they are offered. So even last years schedule may be of assistance.

And finally if there is somewhere else I could have searched please advise. The unit had some information but I am up against a deadline and so am trying to be thorough in trying to figure this out while I wait to hear back from them. Thanks in advance. This forum has been a great source of information.

 

[Redeye]

When courses are available in the Reserve world is something of a local issue.  Your basic courses will be run locally, in Ottawa by the 33 Canadian Brigade Group's Battle School, which manages all the local courses.  There is normally a fall or winter course, so it's possible.

The second course you mention is run normally in Aldershot or Gagetown (which is where CAP/BMOQ(L)/whatever they're calling it now) runs, and it's generally timed to run into the start of a CAP serial so you go from one course to the other.

CAP/BMOQ(L) runs throughout the year in Gagetown, there are winter serials, and at one time at least there was a fall serial.  Someone with access to the Army National Calendar can get the course dates.  Once you are qualified to proceed onto the course, your unit's Ops Cell can start nominating you to try to get you on the course you want.

Infantry Officer Development Period 1.1 (which is colloquially often referred to as "Phase III") runs twice a year normally - during the summer starting in May and then again in the winter starting in January.  There was a fall course run a couple of years ago, too - I know because I did Mod 3 on that course - but I don't think they've done it again since.  It's I think 13 weeks in total now including the FFQ range package at the end (theoretically it was optional for reservists when I went through, but not really, and it's both useless and, well, fun.)

 

[bolt]

Thank you for your quick response. I managed to get a hold of the "battle school" dates, and it seems there is a weekend BMOQ starting in October, to run to March. But the battle school appears to have dates running until April/May.  Is it possible to have concurrent BMOQ serials? [Ie one course still ongoing in January when a second course starts...]

Thanks again, I am in the process of going to see someone with access to the calendar. I know a course being available doesn't guarantee being course loaded, but at least I'll know the possible options and plan accordingly.

 

[dapaterson]

It is common for courses to be run in parallel.

One word of caution, though: the 2011/12 calendar has not been finalized yet, and is still subject to change.  However, Redeye's overview of past years is correct, and is indicative of what can be expected in 11/12.

 

[bolt]

Thank you dapaterson. Your advice is also noted and appreciated. My intent is to plan accordingly for the most likely course cycle, with contigency plans built in should the training schedule deviate from the "norm."

 

[Redeye]

Deviating from the "norm" is sort of par for the course, it happens with monotonous regularity to some degree.  Flexibility is a key skill to learn as an army officer, it will serve you well.

 

[Journeyman]

The Commandant of the Infantry School recently provided some stats on the latest Infantry Officer DP 1.1 courses. This seemed like as good a thread as any to provide some points to ponder for those scheduled, or planning, to attend:

....at least one-third of all candidates arrived with a below physical fitness standard. Of particular note was the lack of cardio capacity and physical robustness.

....many individuals arrived having forgotten basic skills and field craft.

....mental preparedness (determined through a Threshold Knowledge Test, which 5 failed) was assessed as average. Administrative preparedness was satisfactory, although some candidates arrived with significant kit deficiencies.

Course Results:
- Successfully completed all modules sequentially: 58
- Successfully completed as a re-test from previous serials: 2
- Training failure: 29
- Voluntary RTU: 8
- Medical RTU: 29
(Yes, more failed than passed)

....the majority of candidates who were withdrawn were a result of the following:
- they arrived for training in poor physical condition;
- the exacerbated pre-existing injuries;
- they were unable to cope with the demanding timetable;
- they lacked the fieldcraft/knowledge to survive in the field for extended periods;
- they lacked the will to continue on course after suffering minor temporary injuries.

In effect, while some may feel they're entitled to be officers for whatever personal reasons, the reality is there are several difficult steps between Point A and Point B. The instructors will guide and assist you; they cannot carry you.

 

[Infanteer]

....the majority of candidates who were withdrawn were a result of the following:
- they arrived for training in poor physical condition;
- the exacerbated pre-existing injuries;
- they were unable to cope with the demanding timetable;
- they lacked the fieldcraft/knowledge to survive in the field for extended periods;
- they lacked the will to continue on course after suffering minor temporary injuries.

Now just think that, under certain Commandants, many of these type got through.

 

[ballz]

....at least one-third of all candidates arrived with a below physical fitness standard. Of particular note was the lack of cardio capacity and physical robustness.

What was considered the physical fitness standard? Surely 1/3 of the candidates that arrived for DP1.1 didn't fail their express test? Did they use "Exempt" as the standard or the Army Fitness Level 4 as the standard?

Course Results:
- Successfully completed all modules sequentially: 58
- Successfully completed as a re-test from previous serials: 2
- Training failure: 29
- Voluntary RTU: 8
- Medical RTU: 29

Really glad you posted this... numbers always do tell the real story.

 

[bdave]

What do Reserve Infantry Officers learn beyond CAP?

 

[George Wallace]

In effect, while some may feel they're entitled to be officers for whatever personal reasons, the reality is there are several difficult steps between Point A and Point B. The instructors will guide and assist you; they cannot carry you.

This is what I always have in the back of my mind when I first hear many of the "I want to be an officer" statements from people.  Many have no concept of what they are getting into and are quite often surprised when informed that the education and/or qualifications that they have often pale in comparison to those of pers already serving, many as NCMs.

 

[vonGarvin]

What was considered the physical fitness standard? Surely 1/3 of the candidates that arrived for DP1.1 didn't fail their express test? Did they use "Exempt" as the standard or the Army Fitness Level 4 as the standard?

This past summer, over 100 IODP 1.1 candidates were assessed day one of the course using the CF Expres test as the minimum standard.  All but one passed.  That candidate was not allowed to progress.
From there, they must meet the Army Fitness Standard ("BFT").  All candidates passed, though some needed a "re-do".

The telling feature of the low physical fitness standard was not an inability to pass the 13km ruck march, casualty drag and trench dig, but the ability to march over 250 km throughout the summer carrying in excess of 60 lbs/soldier, all the while expected to retain the mental capacity to lead an infantry platoon on dismounted operations, day and night, irrespective of weather.  During the conduct of the course, many candidates were unable to keep up, and some "tapped out", others were injured because they weren't alert enough to avoid falling (and injuring) themselved, or were too exhausted to properly conduct their leadership tasks.

The good news in all of this is that both regular and reserve force graduates are mentally and physically tough, and have demonstrated to themselves and their peers that they deserved to pass.

For all prospective candidates, take heed.  If you are fit (and I don't mean "BFT-Fit") you will succeed on this course.  The staff are all highly professional and they don't abuse the candidates with "extra stuff".  The course and the demands of the candidates to perform impeccably for 13 weeks is tough enough.

 

[Journeyman]

Now just think that, under certain Commandants, many of these type got through.

I suspect it's the new Standards O   

 

[vonGarvin]

I suspect it's the new Standards O   

Though I'm sure he'd love to take credit for it, the change was afoot before he arrived, but it wasn't long before he arrived.  Maybe they knew he was coming and he'd simply demand their compliance?  ;D

 

[Redeye]

We complete the DP 1.1 course - which is basically everything in the light/dismounted role.  We don't get to go on to 1.2 ("Phase IV") which is all mechanized.

It includes:

All platoon weapons
Fighting Patrols (raids and ambushes at platoon level)
Offensive operations (hasty and deliberate attacks)
Defensive operations including siting, routine in defence, withdrawals
Contemporary operating enviroments (urban operations)
Field Fire Qualification (range planning, templating, and conduct up to live fire at section level)

What do Reserve Infantry Officers learn beyond CAP?

 

[vonGarvin]

We complete the DP 1.1 course - which is basically everything in the light/dismounted role.  We don't get to go on to 1.2 ("Phase IV") which is all mechanized.

It includes:

All platoon weapons
Fighting Patrols (raids and ambushes at platoon level)
Offensive operations (hasty and deliberate attacks)
Defensive operations including siting, routine in defence, withdrawals
Contemporary operating enviroments (urban operations)
Field Fire Qualification (range planning, templating, and conduct up to live fire at section level)

Slight Change
"Contemporary operation environment" is actually "Full Spectrum Operations".  The Commandant has reminded us all that combat is included in the full spectrum of operations, so there is less emphasis on doing "Afghanistan" in Gagetown.  (And, by "Afghanistan", do we meed 2002 Op Apollo?  2003 Athena?  Medusa? TF 3-08 Awesome-ocity?)

Anyway, this is a basic course, and will include transiting from a non-permissive to a more-permissive environment.

 

[Redeye]

Anyway, this is a basic course, and will include transiting from a non-permissive to a more-permissive environment.

Does that mean in fancy planimal terms that the "Confirmation Of Critical Knowledge" is expected to move from being exogenous to endogenous? (more self-imposed vs more staff-imposed?)

The only feedback on this summer's course I heard was grumbling that they were into PPE with plates right away, something no one was really used to, and it was punishing for some people.  And they didn't get to play football behind the mod hotel at Enniskillen during FFQ.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

This past summer, over 100 IODP 1.1 candidates were assessed day one of the course using the CF Expres test as the minimum standard.  All but one passed.  That candidate was not allowed to progress.
From there, they must meet the Army Fitness Standard ("BFT").  All candidates passed, though some needed a "re-do".

The telling feature of the low physical fitness standard was not an inability to pass the 13km ruck march, casualty drag and trench dig, but the ability to march over 250 km throughout the summer carrying in excess of 60 lbs/soldier, all the while expected to retain the mental capacity to lead an infantry platoon on dismounted operations, day and night, irrespective of weather.  During the conduct of the course, many candidates were unable to keep up, and some "tapped out", others were injured because they weren't alert enough to avoid falling (and injuring) themselved, or were too exhausted to properly conduct their leadership tasks.

The good news in all of this is that both regular and reserve force graduates are mentally and physically tough, and have demonstrated to themselves and their peers that they deserved to pass.

For all prospective candidates, take heed.  If you are fit (and I don't mean "BFT-Fit") you will succeed on this course.  The staff are all highly professional and they don't abuse the candidates with "extra stuff".  The course and the demands of the candidates to perform impeccably for 13 weeks is tough enough.

I was very happy when they brought this course back to the way it should be run.  It showed that being an infantry officer isn't just any other job and that if you want to be one you need to be able to give that extra push.  Passing my Phase III was the most fulfilling point of my military career and it really set the tone for the successes I have had since then.  Until I did Phase III I was seriously considering quitting the military.  I had gone through 3 years of ROTP and RMC and frankly hated the school but once I was put on Phase III my attitude changed dramatically.

I completed the course two summers ago we graduated 46 out of 125 I believe it was and at the end I felt like I had really achieved something for the first time since I joined the CF.  Did I have my fair share of ups and downs on the course.  Definitely; particularly, when myself and 4 others were rightfully CB'ed for the only real significant break we would have all course.  I was bitter at the time but it was a very good learning experience that taught me a lot about discipline required of an Infantry officer and the importance of following orders and directives no matter how significant or benign you think they are.

 

[130William]

To Journeyman, you have any statistics on DP-1 For Armoured Officers? Would be much appreciated.

 

[Journeyman]

To Journeyman, you have any statistics on DP-1 For Armoured Officers? Would be much appreciated.

I suspect many have difficulty not spilling their coffee when moving cross-country.  ;D


Sorry, I have no stats for Armd.

Perhaps ask the question in the Armd threads; someone from their School may be lurking and have the answer.