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Domestic Terrorism/Public Attacks on CAF Personnel

tomahawk6

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The Cold Lake mosque is an example of "fake hate" designed to garner sympathy.It worked because alot of citizens came to clean up the graffiti.
Like this case in France where the imam confessed to spray painting his own mosque.

mosque-fake-hate-crime.jpg


Le Republique – The police opened an investigation after the discovery of offensive tags made ​​of green paint on the end of October mosque Pau Avenue Buros. Written in Arabic, the graffiti appeared to the faithful to be about dealing with “infidels, hypocrites, unjust …”. The ‘crying wolf’ imam of the mosque went to the police station a few times to denounce the hateful messages.

Police indulged the mosque leader’s demand for an investigation, which led them…. nowhere. No lead had been successful until Wednesday, when the imam came to the police station to confess that, in fact, it was he who was the author of that little display of self-hatred and blamed it on the nasty infidels – in retaliation for an ongoing internal feud.
 

George Wallace

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For the most part I agree with you SherH2A, but you lost me here:

SherH2A said:
What I would suggest is the CDS and our civilian leaders do, is consider, allowing on Tuesday, members to wear their uniforms and not only wear their uniforms but wear the uniform they are proudest of wearing, it could be for officers their mess kits and for NCM, their dress blues.  This would allow members to show how much they mourn our murdered comrades and how proud they are of the example of service those two individuals, Regular and Primary Reserves, have shown us.

That does not make any sense to me.

As for this:
SherH2A said:
You will notice I have avoided the use of the word terrorist.  The Nazis in WW2 considered my father a terrorist because of his Resistance activities and I refuse to allow the current spate of murders to sully my father's and other resistance fighters memories.

I would in no way consider the "Resistance" terrorists in the way that we call Terrorists today.  The Resistance were organized organizations cooperating fully with the Allies in their endeavors to defeat the Nazi threat.  They were not terrorizing the public.  They may have been terrorizing the German army, but so were other Allied units; all part of the efforts to stop the threat.

Terrorists today target one and all, to throw fear into the minds of whole populations.  The Resistance can not be compared in anyway to Terrorists.
 

George Wallace

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tomahawk6 said:
The Cold Lake mosque is an example of "fake hate" designed to garner sympathy.It worked because alot of citizens came to clean up the graffiti.
Like this case in France where the imam confessed to spray painting his own mosque.

True.  It could be.  It may not be.  It was in English, not Arabic, so it could have been anyone.  I would say that the case in France would have eliminated a vast majority of Frenchmen due to it being spray painted in Arabic, something I am sure the majority of Frenchmen would not have knowledge of. 

The fact that the community came together to clean up the graffiti says more.
 

bald guy

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I find it more than ironic that military personnel have received directives to remove their military employment and pictures of military personnel from their personal facebook pages.  Meanwhile DND facebook pages have numerous pictures of military personnel with their names attached.  Am I missing something?
 

George Wallace

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bald guy said:
I find it more than ironic that military personnel have received directives to remove their military employment and pictures of military personnel from their personal facebook pages.  Meanwhile DND facebook pages have numerous pictures of military personnel with their names attached.  Am I missing something?

I think they are seriously worried about the PERSEC and OPSEC of CAF members who, along with family and friends, may be posting such things on social media as:

"Here is a view of Kabul from my position on TV Hill." 
"Jill will be arriving home on Flight XYJ, in Ottawa at 1450 hrs on Thursday."

Usually the photos and info on the DND pages are vetted.  Not to mention our faith in the PAO's to get things wrong, like all the rest of the Press.  ;D
 

Haggis

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It appears that Cpl Cirillo is getting a full military send-off and a whole lot of media coverage.  However, we have heard little of the arrangements for WO Vincent.  Does anyone know about his funeral?
 

The Bread Guy

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Haggis said:
It appears that Cpl Cirillo is getting a full military send-off and a whole lot of media coverage.  However, we have heard little of the arrangements for WO Vincent.  Does anyone know about his funeral?
Here's the Google English version of this in French:
The funeral of Warrant Officer Patrice Vincent, the military killed when Martin Rouleau Couture launched its drive against him Monday in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, will take place on Saturday, November 1 at the Cathedral of Longueuil.

(....)

Not surprisingly, the family requests that the media and the community respect their privacy and states that it did not intend to speak to the media, preferring instead to focus on the possible creation of a Facebook page in memory Patrice Vincent will post information, personal photographs as well as his career in the Armed Forces.
 

Scoobie Newbie

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tomahawk6 said:
The Cold Lake mosque is an example of "fake hate" designed to garner sympathy.It worked because alot of citizens came to clean up the graffiti.
Like this case in France where the imam confessed to spray painting his own mosque.

mosque-fake-hate-crime.jpg


Le Republique – The police opened an investigation after the discovery of offensive tags made ​​of green paint on the end of October mosque Pau Avenue Buros. Written in Arabic, the graffiti appeared to the faithful to be about dealing with “infidels, hypocrites, unjust …”. The ‘crying wolf’ imam of the mosque
went to the police station a few times to denounce the hateful messages.

Police indulged the mosque leader’s demand for an investigation, which led them…. nowhere. No lead had been successful until Wednesday, when the imam came to the police station to confess that, in fact, it was he who was the author of that little display of self-hatred and blamed it on the nasty infidels – in retaliation for an ongoing internal feud.

What's your source that they desecrated their own business?
 

JS2218

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bald guy said:
I find it more than ironic that military personnel have received directives to remove their military employment and pictures of military personnel from their personal facebook pages.  Meanwhile DND facebook pages have numerous pictures of military personnel with their names attached.  Am I missing something?

I would question the legality of giving legal orders to do so. It might be highly recommended but I have not seen anything that specifically states "you will remove x photos."
 

DAA

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bald guy said:
I find it more than ironic that military personnel have received directives to remove their military employment and pictures of military personnel from their personal facebook pages.  Meanwhile DND facebook pages have numerous pictures of military personnel with their names attached.  Am I missing something?

The pictures are used with the "consent" of those who appear in them.  It would be a monumental task to try and sanitize those websites and at the end of the day, what's the point?  You can always pull that data through Google and retrieve a "cached" version of the same page.  Not to mention what do you post next on those sites, pictures which have no personal appeal or connection to the average Canadian?

Best case scenario, would be that if an individual wants their photo removed, they need merely ask for it to be taken down.
 

Eye In The Sky

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JS2218 said:
I would question the legality of giving legal orders to do so. It might be highly recommended but I have not seen anything that specifically states "you will remove x photos."

The term is 'lawful command'.  Are you even in the military?

Whether this is a lawful command or not I'll leave to a Legal SME.  Common Sense SME in me says it's stupid to ignore this advice, and it could be your family, kids and friends who pay the price.
 

DAA

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Also, for those who follow various other sites, you'll be happy to know that FB has either pulled down "that guys" FB page or through his own better judgement he deleted his account.  And on a more important note, the Company that he listed as his "Employer" on his personal Facebook page, has indicated that he was NOT one of their employees and had no affiliation with that company.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Devon-Lumber-Company-Inc/113434102181376

PS - see the post below from Chief Stoker.  Seems to be two unrelated companies, one in the US and one in Canada by relatively the same name.

http://www.devonlumber.ca/
 

George Wallace

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Eye In The Sky said:
The term is 'lawful command'.  Are you even in the military?

Whether this is a lawful command or not I'll leave to a Legal SME.  Common Sense SME in me says it's stupid to ignore this advice, and it could be your family, kids and friends who pay the price.

And that, once again, brings us back to Killing With Keyboards.

or here:  http://army.ca/forums/threads/71137.0  where our discussion and updates add a bit to more.
 

Stoker

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DAA said:
Also, for those who follow various other sites, you'll be happy to know that FB has either pulled down "that guys" FB page or through his own better judgement he deleted his account.  And on a more important note, the Company that he listed as his "Employer" on his personal Facebook page, has indicated that he was NOT one of their employees and had no affiliation with the company.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Devon-Lumber-Company-Inc/113434102181376

Yes he did, with their Canadian store it appears.
 

cphansen

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Well frankly what I am suggesting is we allow the members to wear their best to honour the memory of two very good men.  I think if a good portion of the CAF wear their dress uniforms going back and forth to work, it would send a very different message and if the CDS amended his suggestion to allow the members to decide for themselves, it would show the esteem they were held in by the rest of us.

I think it would send a very powerful statement.

And as for the use of the term terrorists,  they do not deserve the honour of that term as the Nazis applied it to the resistance fighters.  The term had a very different meaning 60 years ago and should not be debased by being applied to haters and murders
 

DAA

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Chief Stoker said:
Yes he did, with their Canadian store it appears.

I'm thinking it is two totally different operations (ie; Ltd and Inc), the one shown on his FB page implicated the company in the US but they could have been a bit more specific in there response and "distanced" themselves a bit more from all of this.

http://www.devonlumber.ca/


 

a_majoor

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When we think of Cpl Nathan Cirrillo, Warrant Officer Patrice Vincent, Cpl Brandon Stevenson (who was also on guard at the monument), Sergeant at Arms Kevin Vickers (and all the other men and women who serve), I'd like everyone to remember how they epitomize the words of the "Funeral Oration" by Pericles:

"What I would prefer is you should fix your eyes every day on the greatness of Athens as she really is, and fall in love with her. When you realize her greatness, then reflect what made her great were men with a spirit of adventure, men who knew their duty, men who were ashamed to fall below a certain standard. If they ever failed in an enterprise, they made up their minds that at any rate the city would not find their courage lacking to her, and they gave to her the best contribution that they could. They gave her their lives, to her and to all of us, and for their own selves they won praises that never grow old, the most splendid of sepulchers- not the sepulcher where their body is laid but where their glory remains eternal in men’s minds, always there on the right occasion to stir others to speech or to action."
 

Edward Campbell

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Things that make you go "Hmmm ..." include this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from The Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ottawa-shooting-harpers-prous-agenda-has-turned-canada-into-a-target-and-divided-society-9811918.html
independent-logo.png

Ottawa shooting: Harper’s pro-US agenda has turned Canada into a target – and divided society
The impact of the country’s participation in the US-led war against Isis has already been felt

NELOFER PAZIRA

Wednesday 22 October 2014

The safest country in the world is no longer a safe place and many Canadians will be asking today whether this is because the Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper pushed Canada into joining the US-led war in the Middle East.
A multicultural society which prided itself on tolerance became divided when the Conservative government put a number of Muslims on a “watch list” in addition to announcing three weeks ago that it would send 600 special forces members along with fighter jets to support the US effort in their fight against Isis in Iraq. Two Canadian soldiers were hit by a car on Monday near Montreal – one of them died later. The attacker was shot dead and identified as a Muslim convert influenced by “radical Islamists”.

Canada has a large Muslim population – more than 2 per cent are Canadian citizens – but the word “radicalised” only came into use recently when the Harper government revealed it believed that about 30 young Canadians had gone to support Isis.

Then at 10am Canadian time yesterday a gunman fired shots at the War Memorial near the Parliament Hill in Ottawa and first reports suggested a Canadian soldier on honour guard was killed. The gunman entered the parliament building with a rifle where some 30 shots were heard. Harper was evacuated to safety and the parliament building was under police guard for hours afterwards. On Wednesdays, parliament is a busy place with all parties holding their caucus meetings; the building is often packed with tourists.

One parliamentary worker described the armed man as having an Arab appearance with long hair and a beard. Canadian Muslims will be among the first to express their concern if this proves true.

The Montreal attacker was identified as Martin Couture-Rouleau, aged 25, of Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu outside the city.

Canada refused to join the UK-US war in Iraq in 2003. As a bargain, then Canadian Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chrétien offered to send troops to Afghanistan. Initially, Canadians were not told their soldiers were on a combat mission. Only when their bodies began to return home did it become clear that Canada was at war in a Muslim country. Canadians eventually forced Harper to withdraw their soldiers from Afghanistan.

But now he is sending them back to the Middle East. Canadians have been against joining wars on the basis that, historically, their country only sent peacekeepers abroad. However, Harper’s pro-American policies appear to have turned Canada – and indeed the seat of political power in the capital Ottawa – into a target. Now Canadians will not only be worried about travelling to Europe, America or the Middle East – but wondering if they’re even safe inside their own homes.

So what happens next? Will Canada’s Muslim community – which has existed for more than 100 years – now have to “re-prove” it is loyal to a country which is fighting in the Muslim world? There have been plenty of “plots” uncovered in the past – in one of which Muslim extremists were apparently threatening to kill MPs. Since 9/11, many Muslims in the country have offered to work in government security in order to prevent incidents like those this week. How long this co-operation will continue now that Canada is in action in Iraq is another question.

Nelofer Pazira is a Canadian journalist


Now, I have no doubt that some people, some of them Muslims, oppose Canada's intervention in the Middle East. I have no doubt that some Canadians support IS** for any number of reasons, none of them good.

But consider this: "Canadians eventually forced Harper to withdraw their soldiers from Afghanistan." I have no doubt that one of the factors that led Prime Minister Harper to withdraw from Afghanistan was that Canadians' support for the mission declined over time. But I am fairly certain that several other factors weighed at least as heavily.

There's a Wikipedia page about Ms Pazira.
 
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