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Electrical Technician Navy

d_edwards

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Is the trade still shedding a lot of positions?  I am wondering how active the school is and if there are a lot of PATs languishing about waiting for courses to start.

 

Electric Ian

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The amount of people leaving has levelled off in the past few months. The problem is there's a lot of ET's that have over 20 years and a lot of sea time, some of them are just waiting on job offers, so it's difficult to predict releases. There aren't very many ET's (if any) on PATS. They're on ships waiting for their next course. The school is running as many courses as they can, but still only one ETech course per year.  In the fleet, the trade is approaching "red" status in some ranks, we're very short and burning out the people we have. If it continues, there will be virtually no shore postings. Hard road for a little while yet.
 

Pusser

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Electric Ian said:
and the perception ( sometimes justified) that the Navy is beginning to take benefits from the members to put fuel in the tanks of the ships.

I'm curious to know what benefits have been taken away.  It sounds to me that this could be a case of misconception more than reality.  Our compensation and benefits package is defined by Treasury Board and the Navy cannot alter that.
 

Pat in Halifax

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Pusser said:
I'm curious to know what benefits have been taken away.  It sounds to me that this could be a case of misconception more than reality.  Our compensation and benefits package is defined by Treasury Board and the Navy cannot alter that.
So am I???
Someone want to be a little more specific?
 

gcclarke

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Pusser said:
I'm curious to know what benefits have been taken away.  It sounds to me that this could be a case of misconception more than reality.  Our compensation and benefits package is defined by Treasury Board and the Navy cannot alter that.

Haven't you heard? They got rid of sliders!
 

Electric Ian

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Pusser said:
I'm curious to know what benefits have been taken away.  It sounds to me that this could be a case of misconception more than reality.  Our compensation and benefits package is defined by Treasury Board and the Navy cannot alter that.

Well, severance pay for 1. I know, that's gov't-wide, but it's still something that contributes, as the people getting in now won't see it. Any compensatory "raise" was eaten up in taxes.  Sea Pay used to be re-instated once a ship came out of the ditch, not any more, it's re-instated upon the successful completion of RRI's which could be months away depending on a ships schedule, but the crew is still standing duty watches alongside a ship that is getting sea pay and doing the same thing. They're reviewing Spec pay, meanwhile the academic training is going toward  the amalgamation of trades (MSE). Eventually, when everyone is trained to the same level there's no longer any specialists and alas, no specialist pay. Writing's on the wall with that.  The "no slider" comment may seem petty in the grand scheme of things, but that is 2 days short leave per month that is no longer even asked for any more and it's given so sporadically that you may as well say it's gone.  None of these things are show stoppers, but generally I would say the "uniqueness" of being a sailor has been diminished, it's percieved as a "job" now and the Navy is run as a business. It's not a business. The private sector is a completely viable alternative, you're treated the same out there in most respects, sometimes better.
 

PuckChaser

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Electric Ian said:
The private sector is a completely viable alternative, you're treated the same out there in most respects, sometimes better.

And yet there's lots of people wanting INTO the CF. If you're not happy, release. Complaining that you don't get sea pay for not going to sea is insanity....
 

Occam

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PuckChaser said:
And yet there's lots of people wanting INTO the CF. If you're not happy, release. Complaining that you don't get sea pay for not going to sea is insanity....

How many times must we go around this?  Sea pay is not just for going to sea.  When the ship is in harbour, you still have duty watches that force you to remain aboard for 24 hours every X days (used to be 12-16, but no idea what it is these days).  You still have working in confined spaces.  You still have umpteen other things that sea pay is meant to compensate for.  The notion that it's like LDA or aircrew allowance or whatever the proper names are is simply wrong. 
 

Pat in Halifax

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Further, it is indication that anyone on sea pay is essentially on-call to fill last minute vacancies. I don't mean unexpected ones due to an international incident, I mean a LS ETech busting his leg on the weekend so LS XXXX off MTL has to fill the position.
The rest of your 'indicators' are unfortunately the way of the future. I think the Spec Pay issues may well settle out over time. The amalgamation of the ER and ET trades is not really a bad thing and will actually bring qualifications closer in line with TC which are currently under scrutiny due to changes made by the IMO. Again, the short leave for the 4 half days a month-That was NEVER a given and many units tightly controlled it even 10 years ago.
I will tell you one thing though-We NEVER had PDL; You finished a 6 month NATO and you got 48s (as in hours). EVERY day in a foreign port was an 0800-1600 work day. Most ships averaged 200+ days a year away over their 5 year cycle and postings at the LS, MS and PO2 ranks jived with the cycle. Speaking of promos, I kept my nose clean and was still at the PO2 rank for 11 years...which was a little less than most.
There are changes and that is what they are. Change is not good (No one famous ever said that it was by the way) but it is inevitable. The way I see it, we as technical trades can ride this wave of transition...or...we can get left behind and lose our self regulation. The next couple of years for the tech trades quite frankly is going to be a bag drive but I have said it before and I will say it again;  if I had the last 30+ years to do over again, I wouldn't change a thing! (except for that incident in Curacao in 1989....!)


Pat
 

Pusser

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The loss of Severance Pay (which wasn't really a loss at all) was inevitable, once the Public Service bargained it away.  Our pay and compensation is modelled on theirs, so without an offset, we had to be next.  Frankly, I'm surprised we managed to hang onto as long as we did.  If you think about it, a severance package is traditionally designed as compensation for a sudden loss of a job.  What we were getting wasn't really  severance pay in the traditional sense.  It was more like a retirement bonus.  Severance Pay actually still exists for more traditional circumstances (e.g. a force reduction plan where personnel are released involuntarily).

The idea that Sea Duty Allowance (SDA) is for standing duty watches is a myth.  There are a number specific factors associated with service at sea (i.e. not necessarily service in ships) for which Treasury Board has approved SDA as compensation.  Standing duty watches on board ship is not now, nor has it ever been, one of those specific factors.  Standing duty watches is simply part of being posted to a ship, the same as standing duties in a host of other units across the CF.

Perhaps there has been a tightening of enforcement of policy and regulation, but it's hard to argue that there has been a significant loss of CF benefits and the Navy as one part of the CF has not been the driving force of any changes in this area.
 

Stoker

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Pusser said:
The loss of Severance Pay (which wasn't really a loss at all) was inevitable, once the Public Service bargained it away.  Our pay and compensation is modelled on theirs, so without an offset, we had to be next.  Frankly, I'm surprised we managed to hang onto as long as we did.  If you think about it, a severance package is traditionally designed as compensation for a sudden loss of a job.  What we were getting wasn't really  severance pay in the traditional sense.  It was more like a retirement bonus.  Severance Pay actually still exists for more traditional circumstances (e.g. a force reduction plan where personnel are released involuntarily).

The idea that Sea Duty Allowance (SDA) is for standing duty watches is a myth.  There are a number specific factors associated with service at sea (i.e. not necessarily service in ships) for which Treasury Board has approved SDA as compensation.  Standing duty watches on board ship is not now, nor has it ever been, one of those specific factors.  Standing duty watches is simply part of being posted to a ship, the same as standing duties in a host of other units across the CF.

Perhaps there has been a tightening of enforcement of policy and regulation, but it's hard to argue that there has been a significant loss of CF benefits and the Navy as one part of the CF has not been the driving force of any changes in this area.

I believe sea pay was originally to compensate personnel for the demands that service in a warship entail. Including living conditions and separation from families.
 

Electric Ian

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PuckChaser said:
And yet there's lots of people wanting INTO the CF. If you're not happy, release. Complaining that you don't get sea pay for not going to sea is insanity....

There's also a s**tload of people leaving, and a lot of them are young people letting initial contracts expire and not resigning. Of course some want in, 13 weeks of initial pain is followed by easy money for the next 25 years, but they're leaving because of the "tightening of orders" to the point that they get discouraged. I Didn't say i wasn't happy, I have 23 years  in and 20+ years sea time and like my job. The young people look down the road and don't see a bright future. 
 

Pusser

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Chief Stoker said:
I believe sea pay was originally to compensate personnel for the demands that service in a warship entail. Including living conditions and separation from families.

That is correct.
 

DAA

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Interesting reading/following this thread and few other E Tech related threads.

Makes it seem like the trade is in distress and people are bailing left and right.  At the end of the day, the CF will only hire "4" E Techs this year.

 

Electric Ian

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Chief Stoker said:
I believe sea pay was originally to compensate personnel for the demands that service in a warship entail. Including living conditions and separation from families.

Yeah, so using your ideology, if you're posted to a ship, you get sea pay.
 

Pat in Halifax

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Electric Ian said:
Yeah, so using your ideology, if you're posted to a ship, you get sea pay.
Where are you going with this? if you are posted to a ship in MLR, you are not posted to a sea going Unit; ergo, no SDA.
 

anylettuce

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Looking at this wondering a few things.
What things should I look at for research? 3 phase motors, transformers (delta/wye), vfd (variable frequency drive) ect.
Tools, do they provide them or are the techs provide them, anything special besides basic hand tools and multimeter?
I have herd 450 3 phase is the what is used most. Some new vessels are 1000 volts, possibly main drive motors are electric.
 

anylettuce

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mariomike said:
For reference, perhaps this will be merged with,

Electrical Technician Navy  ( E Tech is a Navy only trade. )
https://army.ca/forums/threads/108780.0
2 pages .

I am more currious about the actual work that would be done. I am currently a redseal journeyman (6 years) looking at joining the navy to continue my trade on our fleet.
I want to brush up on what I need and figire out the tools.
 
J

jollyjacktar

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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the trade will be killed off in December.  It, along with Hull Tech and Marine Systems Engineer will cease to exist.  In their place a new trade will be created.  There will be common training up until you reach the Leading Seaman level.  At that point they split with the electrical going one way and the mechanical sides, the other.  From what I gather there's no guarantee a new guy such as yourself will go to the electrical route.  It all depends upon what is in demand when you hit that marker.
 
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