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Electrical Technician Navy

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jollyjacktar

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There are many theories behind it.  We're not the first navy by the way to do this utter stupidity.  The RAN did it in 92.  The Stokers and to some extent the Electricians have been bleeding out, it's becoming a huge issue with retention and recruitment as well.  Some of us feel that this is an attempt to try and put a bandage on the wound.  There are others who believe it's all about the money.  Saving money, that is.  If you can try and do the same with less people, it won't cost you the same to operate.  The party line is that the "future fleet" won't require the same manpower that the present fleet does as well as they will be going deeply into "In Service Support" for the maintenance needs of the future fleet as well.

All I can honestly say is that I know of no-one who is being honest, that supports this, wants this, or believes in this.  I don't for all three.  If I was younger and had a longer service life to face, I would be looking for a re-muster.  I have heard some of the Chiefs who have stated that as far as they know, everyone is behind this.  I know, a man in his position has to tow the party line (at least in public) and maybe he's getting "nods" from the coast when he asks about it.  Which is to say he's being told what they believe he wants to hear, not how they feel.

I will of course to be best of my ability execute this direction, but I won't try to sell it as a good thing to anyone.  How could I try and convince a young sailor that this is fantastic, best thing since sliced bread when I don't agree with it.  The RAN lost about 25% right off the top when they amalgamated the trades in 92.  I'm already hearing of guys not re-signing contracts.  How many will leave, I can't say?  After 25 years, the skill level of our Australian counterparts is not comparable to ours.  We're going to take a big capability hit as time moves on.  It's a shame.  As I was reading the decision paperwork I didn't get mad at what is being done to us all, it just crushed me inside.
 

Loachman

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Has there been an occupation amalgamation yet that provided any benefits at all, instead of fucking things up? None come to mind.
 

PuckChaser

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Sorry, RCN. You're about to have your own ACISS gongshow. We're 10 years away from fixing it.
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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Loachman said:
Has there been an occupation amalgamation yet that provided any benefits at all, instead of ******* things up? None come to mind.

Actually, in the Navy, we successfully amalgamated the old sub-surface weapons mechanics with the surface weapons technicians to become weapons tech in the 60's. Then more recently, the naval electronics technicians amalgamated well with the naval weapons technicians (after their trade upgrade for the new frigates) to provide us with the current weapons tech trade.

We also amalgamated the old Fire Controllers with the Electronic Warfare technicians to become the NESO trade.

So it can be done when logic dictates.

Now as for the engineering trades, when you consider that more and more of our ships are in the category of electrical propulsion ships ( the MCDV's are already there, the AOPS will to, and there is a good chance the CSC's will have electric drives), which means that electrical generation, transformation (do you know what a thyristor is and do?  :)) and distribution at high voltages is getting to be a more important component of the ship's system, it's getting more and more difficult to figure where electrical work begins or end and where mechanical begins or ends.

Those two trades have to work more closely than ever and each needs to have a good basic knowledge of the other's systems. Thus, it makes some sense to have them learn both types of system while they are in the shipboard system learning phase of their careers. After that some specialization in one or the order seems appropriate, and by the time they get to the top job, on a ship with electrical propulsion, who's to say that its more important to have an electrician or a mechanic in the position of CERA? So they both could have access to such posting.

The real surprise is that they want to amalgamate the hull techs with those two trades. Who will become the welders and fabricators of anything metal or wood onboard? The "mechanical" guys? wouldn't that take away from their time for maintenance of systems? The electrical guys? they would be even further away than the mechanical personnel. It makes no sense to me to put the shipwrights in the mix.  Their skill is too highly specialized and need constant practice to keep the craftsmanship level high enough.

But just the electricians and mechanics ought to be something that can be made to work well.

Now if someone could just figure out proper specialist pay for them, and in particular a good system of "charge" money, everything would be fine.
 
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jollyjacktar

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The ones who'll come away the best of the three are the ET.  Second are the Stokers.  We're the ones getting dick punched.  It's true, OGBD the future ships will be more electrically driven both literally and figuratively and thus why the ET will come out best.

The WENG trade is not the shining success story you paint it out to be.  They're still all fucked up, years after the great smash and will continue to be so for some time to come,  I am told by those in that trade.

Crew reduction will be a maybe doable thing in the new ships but they're going to make it happen on the CPF.  They're not designed for a reduced crew.  For example,  they're reducing from 5 X PO1 to 2 X in this new trade.  This means the work that was done by those 5 will now be pushed onto the remaining PO2.  Who's going to be the two?  At present there's a Snr HT, ET and three MSE.  All of these guys have important roles.  The CPO2 will be admistrative and could be either of the three former trades, which means he doesn't necessarily have a Cert 4 rate.  At present Cert 4 comes with a promotion to that rank.  So, are the future PO1 mechanical side going to be expected to get the Certification without the benefit?  Man, what an incentive to keep you upgrading.  As for us, are they now going to expect us to start getting a Cert 2 and onwards?  We're going to be all keeping watch until we hit PO1.

At least the RAN did one thing proper.  They didn't completely blend the trades per se and also didn't down grade everything.  Cramming more shit to the lower ranks is not going to make for good morale.  It is just another way to force people to do more for less pay.
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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That's why I can't see the HT's being part of the amalgamation.

And my comment was not made to deal with any crew reduction plans, but purely on the basis of trade knowledge of those two trades.

Obviously putting all this top certification work on the shoulders of two PO1 is not acceptable. Either you achieve such result by putting more on the shoulders of everyone down the line - and by extending their time in each rank - so they achieve the same level of expertise by time in, in which case (as I indicated) you must develop a system of specialist pay and charge money payments to make it worth while to be in a trade with slower progression and heavily technical, or you get more and put more on the shoulders of Engineering Officers.

Of course, I remain convinced that where engineering department compensation is concerned, the real mistake was made when they decided to downgrade the CERA's to CPO2. To my mind, if the Navy wanted to be able to provide some form of status or compensation to the CPO1's after their tour as CERA's to set them apart while ashore, they should have instituted something like the US Navy Warrant Officers system.
 
J

jollyjacktar

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
That's why I can't see the HT's being part of the amalgamation.

Neither can we.  The Stokers and ET were already a year into the new trade talks when the HT were suddenly thrown into the mix.  Which I suppose is one reason we're getting raped so badly.  It was thought that perhaps our taking over completely from the FF would have kept us safe, but alas.

Oldgateboatdriver said:
Obviously putting all this top certification work on the shoulders of two PO1 is not acceptable. Either you achieve such result by putting more on the shoulders of everyone down the line - and by extending their time in each rank - so they achieve the same level of expertise by time in, in which case (as I indicated) you must develop a system of specialist pay and charge money payments to make it worth while to be in a trade with slower progression and heavily technical, or you get more and put more on the shoulders of Engineering Officers.

The work is going to have to be forced down on the shoulders of everyone below, and quite frankly they already have enough shit on their collective plates as it is.  Add to the mix that everyone is going to have to learn more about everyone else's job now...

From OS to LS, the three trades will be common and they will learn a bit about all three.  Between LS to PO2 is where the split happens.  Those who will go electrical will peel off onto their side and carry on, the rest will become the mechanical side as a combo HT/Stoker.  There will be some specialty training at this level such as some welding, machinist, helo crash rescue FF, diesel inspector etc.  Up to this level all ranks will stand watch in the MCR in addition to conducting PM/CM.  At the PO1 and above level they go back into common trade once more.  The 2 PO1 will have to see to the needs of both sides of the house.  In this you will need to ensure there is someone who can provide the knowledge of the Snr HT, Snr ET and a Cert 4.  good luck with that....
 
J

jollyjacktar

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No.  They keep pushing to the right as this trainwreck is not ready for it yet. 
 
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