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Graduate Studies / Master Degree / PhD [MERGED]

Whether or not you should got to RMC is one thing.

What you should understand is that if you go to RMC (as other than a UTPNCM, which I gather is not an issue), then there is only one way in -- as a recruit, then four year Officer Cadet.  It's not a "second degree", its a four year apprenticeship.

If you are mid-twenties, already have a university degree, and are interested in a military career, then perhaps you should look into DEO. 

If you qualify for DEO.... then why would you go to RMC? 
If you don't qualify for DEO... then why would you qualify for RMC?

Lastly, the questions one should always ask aren't about RMC -- they are about military service, and what you think about that...
Ok so this question is kinda hard to word so bare with me lol

This is my plan:
I am ncm and am looking to start my undergrad through distance education that I am going to pay myself. After my undergrad I want to get my masters and have the military pay for it because I can't work full time and ill have to attend a university.
After my university I want to get my officer.
Although its a few years down the road, was told that I can apply for officer after 2 years from ncm. Is this true?
I just don't want to do 10 years-ish as ncm and then start at the bottom when I go officer. I will but it would be much better if can start officer sooner

Can anyone help?
Its kind of confusing and if you don't understand let me know ha ha
Why would the CF pay for your Masters?

Are you RegF?
I agree that the question is confusing - that is, the way you wrote it is confusing.

If I understand:

* You're planning to complete an undergrad degree while serving as an NCM.

If that is the case, talk to the Base Personnel Selection Officer (BPSO) once you're posted to a base - there are CF resources to support you in that.

* Once you have some military experience and your undergrad degree, you'd like to become an officer.

If that is the case, there are several routes that are possible.  They depend on a number of things, and again, your BPSO can advise you.  For example, certain commissioning plans do not provide further training or development or possibility of promotion; they are to fill short-term gaps - those are aimed at senior CWOs and MWOs without many more years to serve.  Other plans have other limitations, and they do change over time.  BPSOs should have up to date information about your options.

* Once you are an officer, you'd like to do a master's degree

There are a limited number of programs, all competitive, where you can seek to do a master's degree fully paid by the CF.  You will have obligatory service to complete following your studies, and you will have limited selection in the programs you can take,. as those programs are intended to fill a military requirement, not necessarily meet whatever personal aspirations you may have.  For example, to my knowledge there are no positions for someone to do a masters in English Literature.  Again, the BPSO knows the programs and can assist and advise.

* Finally, you're concerned about starting at the bottom again if commissioned as an officer.

There is no way around this.  Depending on commissioning plan, which in turn may depend on your NCM rank if you become an officer, the highest rank you could possibly begin at would be Major.  To be commissioned as a 2Lt with simultaneous promotion to Major, you would have to be a CWO who had filled one of the most senior appointments in the Canadian Forces - for example, Canadian Forces Chief Warrant Officer, or Chief Warrant Officer of the RCAF.  As a rule of thumb, though, if you are commissioned under a plan that will see you have a future with progression, you'd probably be commissioned as a 2Lt, possibly with simultaneous promotion to Lt.  From there you would work through the system like every other new officer.  Depending on your NCM and officer occupations you may receive some credit for training and experience or not; you would go through the training system and then progress like every other officer in your occupation.
You only have a couple of options, once you're already in - and judging by your previous posts, you start BMQ next month, so you're already in.

1.  Apply for UTPNCM when you're eligible, and if accepted, go to RMC or civvy U for a Bachelor's.  If you're lucky and smart, I have heard of UTPs rarely being offered to do their Masters immediately after undergrad.  I know all of two people in 26 years in who got offered this, so I suspect it's not thrown out very often.  Do a search of this site for entrance requirements for UTPNCM.  You'll have to do more than two years...I seem to recall it's closer to four.  The BPSO has information on all of this.

2.  Do your Bachelor's part time under the Reg F Education Reimbursement program, funded 100% by the CF.  Then try to get your ILP approved for a Masters...which is possible according to the MIL PERS Instruction, but I'll bet it's pretty damned competitive.  Again, see the BPSO.

No matter how you slice it, you have a tough road ahead of you.  If you had degrees in mind, why didn't you pursue ROTP?

P.S.  dapaterson spelled it out quite nicely.  See the BPSO...once you finish BMQ, trades training, and get posted to your first operational unit, that is...
Bruce Monkhouse said:
I'm sorry,...everything else faded away after this.........

Maintaining focus is very.....SQUIRREL!!!!!!  ;D
Bruce Monkhouse said:
I'm sorry,...everything else faded away after this.........

I managed to hang on until:
Army Gal said:
After my university I want to get my officer.
Lucky officer.....or not  :dunno:
Having been down the road you are looking at, it takes time.

You can start university on your own any bloody time you want. However, I really do not see why you would want to pay for it yourself? There are criteria to it of course, but once you get to your first unit, go see your BPSO and find out what they are to get reimbursed for any courses you want to do that lead to your initial degree. There are no strings attached to an ncm getting their first degree paid for and no real requirement to commission after that (as long as you do it part time over X number of years). I believe that you need to be QL5 before you can be reimbursed for any courses, but as mentioned above, talk to the BPSO. If you want to pay for it yourself before then, go for it.

As for post-grad, that is a bit of a different kettle of fish. There is no way for an ncm to get the CF to pay for your Masters unless you compete for one of the commissioning programs (Special Commissioning would be the one you would be looking at) and are accepted into an officer trade that requires a Masters level degree. Social Worker is the only one that comes to mind, but the various medical types and maybe lawyer may as well.

All this is prefaced to say, good luck with completing your degree part time. It took me 5 years of part-time study to complete 1st year uni. That's 5 years in a field unit, with all the things that go along with it. If you are in any kind of operational unit, you will be many years to complete a Bachelors. Can it be done? Absolutely, ncm's finish degrees all the time. For most, they are finishing what they have already started. Starting from scratch will not be easy, fast or cheap.
Further to Wookliar's post: Many NCMs have higher education.  I had a wonderful chat once with a Reg F Cpl who was about to defend his doctoral thesis; in the Reserves, I know of a Cpl who once took the time to counsel a Reg F Colonel on choices in Masters programs, as he'd just completed one.

One important point to remember, though, is not to confuse academic knowledge with real-world skills.  The real world does not always align nicely with academic theory...
I was looking at doing the same thing a year ago however I don't have the marks to get a masters and I have a BA from U of A already. I wanted to do another BA in military science.  However that being said from the research on RMC- I can't get another BA. They will not grant you a degree with the same title despite a different focus completely. (I don't remember where I read that- it might have been the course calendar or website.) 

If possible, I would look at doing a masters over another undergrad degree. A classmate of mine learned that the program we were in was also ofter as a master program in the USA. (our teacher was one of the advisors for it.) She said she would have done it as a masters over another undergrad degree if she had known. Perhaps if possible speak with an advisor for RMC.

If you are concerned about your writing skills for an MA, see if you can get your writing and reading skills evaluated. I suggest reading because I actually found out my last year of university that some of my problems in writing were stemming from some poor reading skills that I had.  This will also tell you what sort of classes to take to improve your writing skills or what sort of support you need to look for or it might tell you that your skills are awesome. It might be as simple as setting your computer's grammar check to scholar rather then basic and having a classmate read over your papers.

I am doing a MA in Military Studies with AMU and I only have a BA. The first course you take is a course on research methods which will help you a lot with your writing.
This thread has helped me a fair bit so thank you all who posted. I currently have my BBA but going to BMQ for Sup Tech and would like to down the road become a Logistics Officer. So thanks to those who have posted.
I was recently looking into this program, apparently it is now an MPA. The grad studies at RMC seem to be affected by the recent cuts, though can anyone confirm this? Does anyone know how many applicants typically apply for these MA programs at RMC? If civilians have much of a chance of being accepted in them? Does anyone know why it is a two year rather than a one year program, because similar programs at Queens or Ryerson can be completed in twelve months. I know at civilian universities the field of Public Administration is competitive, but many of the masters programs are theoretical rather than practical as this program seems to be.
It's called the Post-Graduate on Scholarship (PG on Schol) program, and it's only available to ROTP cadets (civi U or RMC). You apply early in your fourth year, and your standing is based on your grades in second (must be 75% average) and third (must be 80% average) years, plus your military ranking, your athletic score (if you pass your expres test you get full marks I believe), and your bilingualism profile. All these scores are made into one overall score, and you are ranked. The top 6 cadets will be offered their choice of studies (in Canada unless you win a prestigious external scholarship like the Rhodes), and the next 6 in the ranking will be told what they can study (based on their trades). Your trade has to approve of you doing your masters, some had to drop off the list later because they were told they were needed in their trade now rather than 2 years down the track. There were about 30 applications (from RMC and civi U) the year I applied (and got in the top 6). Even if you're ranked below the top 12 (there's only 12 spots a year), you may actually end up getting offered a spot because others turn it down for various reasons. If you go to RMC for your postgrad, you'll get an automatic DRDC scholarship. If you go to another university, you'll either need a "prestigious" scholarship from a list you'll be given, or any scholarship that's $10,000 or more per year of study is considered prestigious. It's not impossible to get approved for PG on schol, but most of the people who were approved had their grades in the very high 80s or 90s, so if you're not an academic superstar, it's unlikely you'll get one. Grad school is insanely hard (even compared to RMC life), so you need those high grades to be able to survive academically. In my program (at the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs), you can't have any grades below a B or you fail out of the program.

Hope that helps!
Oh, and regarding your contract, as the grad studies obviously adds time to your obligatory service, you'll be given the choice of signing for a 5 year or a 20 year contract. At least that's what everyone who got it my year was given - all but one signed the 5 year contract.
As far as I'm aware, civilians have just as much chance as do military students of getting accepted into grad studies at RMC. Also, it is likely that there isn't the opportunity to do your masters in one year (depending on the dept, I think it is for MBA) because there are limited profs available for the summer. Military students would usually not be able to do summer classes as they could be away doing their trade phase training, so that might be why some programs don't offer enough summer courses to be able to complete your masters in one full year rather than 2 years of two semesters, with a summer "off" in between each year. And having just completed my first "year" of grad studies, I would never want to compress that into one full year. For a full courseload, that would be two semesters of 3 courses and one of 4 courses (for my program anyway). 3 courses just about killed me, so much reading and writing, so 4 would be almost unmanageable without losing my mind. So if you have the choice and the funding, do it over 2 years, you can focus better on your work because it's a little more spread out, and thus you'll get more out of it rather than just plowing through huge amounts of work as quick as possible just to get it done.
Hey All,

So while I was able to find some information on undergraduates at RMC, I couldn't find much in the way of specific commentary on graduate studies there. I'm currently finishing my third year of University and intend to pursue grad studies in the general 'security' field, be it an MA in I.R. or something more specific like the War Studies MA. I was hoping to get someone with some direct insight into this program to comment on it, and perhaps discuss how graduate education differs from undergraduate education at RMC, if at all.

Thanks In Advance! :)
Good question! I would also like to see more information on this topic.
I am looking to apply to a Physical Therapy program across Canada.  Right now I am a student at RMC and have heard a rumour around the campus.  Can anyone confirm if a member of the CF can apply to Universities as a resident of any Province?  For example, if I wanted to apply to UBC can I apply as a resident of BC, while simultaneously applying to UAlberta as an Alberta resident? 

Another question is what is the process of going right into a graduate program after completing an ROTP scholarship?  Would I have to add time to my contract, pay for school or be granted an additional scholarship, or does this vary year to year?

Thank you for any information.