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HELP Chain of Commnad Breakdown and Passage of Information - What are my Rights?

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pte4life

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Hey guys, I could really use your help. I know what an amazing resource this is. I know I will get some great responces, so thank you in advance!

I'm in the reserves, and have been since my highschool graduation in 2003, thus i am on my fifth year with the reserves, and am slowly learning how bad the bureaucracy can treat you if you do not know your rights. I feel lied to by my unit, as if they are witholding information from me. What i need to know is what are my rights, and what aggressive action can i take if members higher up the chain are not effectively preforming their duties?

Recently I have caught a lot of bad apples ( I'm attempting to use mild language despite my frustration ), where it feels as though Ops and Trg, and my immediate higher in my chain of command are not working with me to find work this summer. I understand that this may not be their fault, and that there may be a breakdown higher up within the chain. The situation: A position opened up while i was in my Ops and Trg talking to the Ops and Trg staff, the email was sent to their address only an hour or so before i requested to fill it    -  As an aside, do all reserve units have a "request to volunteer for tasking form? Or is just another thing which my unit has made up?  -  So i submitted the necessary paperwork. Soon after, while i was on an extended ex, i received word that this position had been filled by someone else. I asked why this was so, i found it hard to believe that someone got their name in before me - maybe someone was more qualified? In any case, later they tell me that the tasking which i applied for was actually only a staff check, and that i 'may' have to resubmit another volunteer form, from this point i have heard nothing else at all about this tasking, and i believe that they are witholding information with regards to this tasking from me, either because they do not want me to get it, or because they may have screwed up in some manner.

Thoughts?

Another very recent situation occurred when there was a request from another unit for an individual to replace their current staff. My chain forwarded me this message, however they did not give me any information that i need to fill out the 'required' volunteer for tasking form. There has to be this information available if it is necessary information to actually get the tasking. I am curious if my highers are withholding this info from me.

Because I have drive and determination to succeed in the face of adversity, i called the Ops and Trg office with which this tasking pertained to. Now i did not know this, but i certainly do now, I can not call other Ops and Trg offices to look for work, even if there is a breakdown within the chain. I have been told this is a very big deal and have been repremanded for it. It is however 'kind of' (says my next higher up) okay to contact my own Ops and Trg. 

I do not know what to do, I feel stalemated. In the case i find out that my individuals from my unit are not passing down necessary information that their job description requires them to do, so that i may do my own job, what measures can i take? I'm looking for any QR&O, or any doctrine that will let me know exactly what my rights are with regard to seeking out information through the chain of command and outside the chain, and administrative action i can take against members who are acting adversely.

I'm looking for any advice, because it seems to me that I am being hindered from achieving what my unit is supposed to be helping me achieve! Any info or advice and i will be subservient to you for almost eternity!!!

Thanks Guys!!! I REALLY appreciate it.
 

Remius

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Hmn.  Have you tried a memo up your chain of command?  Were your requests verbal or written?  Do you have an e-mail chain to prove you passed up your name for said tasking?

Yes, someone more qualified and or deserving may have gotten the position, it isn't a question of who got there first.  You went to another units ops and trg cell to request employement...oh boy.

A quick question, your profile name says pte4life?  Are you still a pte after 5 years in the reserves?
 

pte4life

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No i'm no longer a Pte :p thanks for asking though. The requests were all sent to my next higher in my chain via email. With regards to the first task, paperwork was submitted, the second, i have not enough information to submit this paperwork. Do all units have a 'request to volunteer for tasking' form? Is it universal, or just unit specific? Thank you very much for your valuable insight!
 

Nfld Sapper

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Never heard of it. I just go directly my Trg WO and ask for taskings.
 

pte4life

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Do you know where can a can find some reference material on Chain on Command, so i know what is expected of me and others offically? And in the case that some information is being withheld from me, what are my options?

Thanks again!
 
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aesop081

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pte4life said:
Do you know where can a can find some reference material on Chain on Command, so i know what is expected of me and others offically?

5 years in the CF.....not a Pte anymore.......

......and still asking a question like that ?

::)

 

Remius

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Can you be more specific about what info is being witheld?  Is this a Class B posting or a class A tasking?
 

pte4life

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<quote> "5 years in the CF.....not a Pte anymore.......

......and still asking a question like that ? </quote>

Well ya, I'm a Soldier, not a Savant. I dont have the entire QR&O's memorized, but if you do know of anything, i'd appreciate it. I dont think you can argue that it's better to be proactive, than ignorant. No matter what the question is. Do you have a different perspective?
 

pte4life

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Both taskings are roughly 90 day Class B taskings. The latter is a replacement for another individual who couldnt fufill his tasking. I strongly believe he was also a reservist.
 

Remius

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Well, some units use Class B nomination request forms.  More of an internal thing to help the member get everything he needs in order to apply like current medical category, resume, mprr etc etc.  Also keeps the unit in the loop as to what a member is doing.

But aviator does have a point, you should know how the chain of command works and how to use it by now.
 
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aesop081

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pte4life said:
Well ya, I'm a Soldier, not a Savant. I dont have the entire QR&O's memorized,

Neither am i but you can bet your ass that i made sure i knew what my job was when i took it.

Yes i do have a different perspective on all this. part of my job is selecting who goes on what courses and who goes on what taskings. Its not a question of getting your name in first. We often get many names for a single spot on course / tasking. We look at all the factors ( who needs what, whos available and what other taskings we have to fill or will have to fill later on.....etc.....) and decide who will go. We dont always have the time to explain to every single line soldier why he wasnt picked. Those are decisions made above your level.
 

geo

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Look, I don't know your unit from jack but, most all units will deal with summer employment in similar manner so here goes....

They usually keep a list of names in the Ops&TRg office of who is willing to work, what they are able to do & the dates of availability... It can be a simple form OR it can be somewhat elaborate - giving the user a chance to enunciate in no uncertain terms what he wants to do and when he wants to do it....

... BUT I don't see a need to fill in form after form after form.... ad nauseum!
 

pte4life

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CDN Aviator said:
Neither am i but you can bet your *** that i made sure i knew what my job was when i took it.

Yes i do have a different perspective on all this. part of my job is selecting who goes on what courses and who goes on what taskings. Its not a question of getting your name in first. We often get many names for a single spot on course / tasking. We look at all the factors ( who needs what, whos available and what other taskings we have to fill or will have to fill later on.....etc.....) and decide who will go. We dont always have the time to explain to every single line soldier why he wasnt picked. Those are decisions made above your level.


My point was " I dont think you can argue that it's better to be proactive, than ignorant. No matter what the question is." No one is perfect, so if you're going to get all high and mighty on me and argue against my point, then you are saying it's best to be ignorant.

Its been publically spoken we are now training proactive soldiers who think on their feet; not some dumb "***" bucket head who wont do anything unless told, thus me asking my question and being proactive. Also note in my original post i said i wanted to know the "official" protocol surrounding chain of command and what is and what is not acceptable, i know how the chain works, its pretty simple, but when theres a breakdown of information coming across, there are rights and protocols which are officially written in documents, this is what i am seeking.

Note again that i said perhaps the individual who got in before me was more qualified, you use an argumentative tone while bringing fourth exactly the same point. I think you're argument against me falls pretty flat Pops. Also I do not know where the arrogant comment about betting my ass comes from, i never claimed to know everything, and I'm certain when you joined, you did not know everything either. In fact, you claim yourself not to have read the entire QR&O's yet you criticise me for asking about official chain of command protocol and documentation which i believe to be in the QR&O's but can not find it.

Thank you for sharing your aggressive opinions, but to me your reply is rather poorly founded, and hypocritical, no offence. You essentially confirmed what i had already said about a more qualified individual getting a position, and rag on me for not knowing the QR&O's when you admit to not having read them yourself. Oh and knowing your job when you took it, but then not having read said documentation which pertains directly to your job.
 

George Wallace

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geo said:
Look, I don't know your unit from jack but, most all units will deal with summer employment in similar manner so here goes....

They usually keep a list of names in the Ops&TRg office of who is willing to work, what they are able to do & the dates of availability... It can be a simple form OR it can be somewhat elaborate - giving the user a chance to enunciate in no uncertain terms what he wants to do and when he wants to do it....

... BUT I don't see a need to fill in form after form after form.... ad nauseum!

On those points, the Unit will also try to employ those "deserving" to be employed.  In other words, if a dedicated soldier, who parades regularly, is looking for employment, and another soldier who shows up once every month or so is also looking for employment; guess who is going to get nominated?
 

pte4life

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but does anyone have any info on the QR&O's, or other documents i can reference on "chain of command" and what to do if your highers aren't following their duties? I suppose im also looking for info on what are the exact duties of certain jobs. Where can i find all this stuff?
 

George Wallace

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::)

Sigh!

How about you going into CFAO's, QR&os, DAODs, etc. and using the Table of Contents and the index and looking the stuff up yourself, if you don't want to listen to us.  Then you will do several things that you aren't doing here.  1.  You would be using your initiative.  2.  You would be educating yourself on how to use these different "Regulations" to find the "Black and White" answers to Administrative, Financial and Disciplinary questions.  3.  You would find the appropriate references to correctly answer your questions.  4.  You won't be waisting bandwidth here.
 
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aesop081

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pte4life said:
In fact, you claim yourself not to have read the entire QR&O's 

Oh i have read the QR&Os, the CFAOs, DAODs, CF flying orders, 1 CAD flying orders........you name it. After all my job descriptions says "understand and follow all applicable orders and directives."


Oh and knowing your job when you took it, but then not having read said documentation which pertains directly to your job.

See above.

If you have a problem that pertains with a member of you CoC, aproach the person above them.

Save your lecturing for someone else kid, I've BTDT
 

George Wallace

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pte4life said:
if you've read them all cover to cover i'd be amazed.

Now you're just Trolling.

Go look up what you are looking for in the appropriate publication of Regulations.

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Topic LOCKED.
 
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