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Honours & Awards (merged)

Furniture

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Kat Stevens said:
Will there be an SSM bar for the troops who spend their entire summer in Meaford, Aldershot or Wainright? How about incremental staff at CTC? I spent two summers teaching in Gagetown, and deserved a medal for that more than I did for several other sweater buttons. We could call it OP BOHICA and make it tax free, too!

Taking that argument to the opposite extreme, should we even give out attendance medals? I mean, sure you went to Afghanistan the Balkans, Somalia, or any other random mission. Did you personally do anything worthy of recognition, or did you just show up, eat the food, and collect your money? Is 180 days sitting in Lahr in the 90s more worthy of recognition than 45 days in Latvia training and providing presence

The nature and length of deployments, and therefore the medals that recognize them has evolved in the last 20 years.  As stated earlier, if we hand out an GCS, GSM, or OSM for 30 days and they are higher on the order of precedence why is 45 days for a NATO bar on a SSM so bad?
 

daftandbarmy

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Meanwhile, in the US, the Anti-Brown Noser Medal ;)


'...rewarding courage under pressure, not just fire, tells those threats that America will never be outfought, or out-thought.'

https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2018/03/04/commentary-military-needs-a-way-to-honor-a-different-critical-kind-of-courage/

 

George Wallace

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daftandbarmy said:
Meanwhile, in the US, the Anti-Brown Noser Medal ;)


'...rewarding courage under pressure, not just fire, tells those threats that America will never be outfought, or out-thought.'

https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2018/03/04/commentary-military-needs-a-way-to-honor-a-different-critical-kind-of-courage/

So?  Is this to be an award for those capable of "Critical Thinking"?
 

Kat Stevens

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Furniture said:
Taking that argument to the opposite extreme, should we even give out attendance medals? I mean, sure you went to Afghanistan the Balkans, Somalia, or any other random mission. Did you personally do anything worthy of recognition, or did you just show up, eat the food, and collect your money? Is 180 days sitting in Lahr in the 90s more worthy of recognition than 45 days in Latvia training and providing presence

The nature and length of deployments, and therefore the medals that recognize them has evolved in the last 20 years.  As stated earlier, if we hand out an GCS, GSM, or OSM for 30 days and they are higher on the order of precedence why is 45 days for a NATO bar on a SSM so bad?

I bet you're a riot at parties.
 

Furniture

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Kat Stevens said:
I bet you're a riot at parties.

I think I have a fairly solid reputation in that department... At least in my trade and on the left coast.

I get people being annoyed about changing medals criteria, I hated that the navy got the GCS for sailing around the Arabian Sea. Then I remembered I wasn't special because I got one with the 2 RCR BG in '07, I was just another cog in the machine.

If you feel your NATO bar has been reduced in worth don't worry, in the mess or at the legion you can explain how you earned yours the hard way.
 

Kat Stevens

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Furniture said:
I think I have a fairly solid reputation in that department... At least in my trade and on the left coast.

I get people being annoyed about changing medals criteria, I hated that the navy got the GCS for sailing around the Arabian Sea. Then I remembered I wasn't special because I got one with the 2 RCR BG in '07, I was just another cog in the machine.

If you feel your NATO bar has been reduced in worth don't worry, in the mess or at the legion you can explain how you earned yours the hard way.

For a guy who's party rep is solid, you don't spot humour very well. I was 100% kidding. I thought it was pretty obvious. I never went to war, so none of my medals count, and to be honest I'm indifferent to them. I ate my ration of shit, and then some, for 23 years, went some places and did some stuff, and got a few merrit badges for it. I really don't care who gets medals for what, as I'm 16 years removed from being all jelly like over them.
 
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jollyjacktar

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I have not bothered to mount the second bar for my CD.  Doubt l will.  Turning in my ISAF bar was a dissatisfier.
 

Halifax Tar

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Furniture said:
I get people being annoyed about changing medals criteria, I hated that the navy got the GCS for sailing around the Arabian Sea. Then I remembered I wasn't special because I got one with the 2 RCR BG in '07, I was just another cog in the machine.

I still question the RCN getting that medal and its my personal belief that it was completed by shady staff work, an exaggeration of risks; because of jealousy and an over inflated sense of importance.  As it doesn't seem, to me, to meet the requirements below.

The General Campaign Star (GCS) is awarded to members of the Canadian Forces and members of allied forces working with the Canadian Forces who deploy into a defined theatre of operations to take part in operations in the presence of an armed enemy.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/honours-history-medals-chart/medal-gcs-swa.page

*Edited to remove some unnecessary harshness.*
 

Pusser

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There is no actual requirement to wear medals that have been awarded.  So, if you feel one is not worthy, you don't have to wear it if you don't want to.
 

Journeyman

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Pusser said:
There is no actual requirement to wear medals that have been awarded.  So, if you feel one is not worthy, you don't have to wear it if you don't want to.
      :nod:

I have a set of ribbons that are just my deployments; I don't care about a Queen's Jubilee, a peacekeeping medal (for already having a peacekeeping medal  ::) ), etc.

:2c:
 

Halifax Tar

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Pusser said:
There is no actual requirement to wear medals that have been awarded.  So, if you feel one is not worthy, you don't have to wear it if you don't want to.

Taken under advisement should I ever find myself in that position.
 

daftandbarmy

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Pusser said:
There is no actual requirement to wear medals that have been awarded.  So, if you feel one is not worthy, you don't have to wear it if you don't want to.

Mt dad was a WW2 vet, landed at Normandy etc. He wasn't particularly proud of his medals, but wore them dutifully on Remembrance Day.

Now that he's passed, I was thinking about getting them framed. In the meantime, I left them on the mantelpiece under a photo of him.

Last year about this time I walked in to find my son holding them and looking at them. He wanted to know more about my Dad so I told him. He even took the medals to school for a project about family histories (and I had to shine them up real quick!).

To me, that's the value of medals.We don't think they're important to us now, well normal non-egomaniacs don't at any rate.  Being tangible evidence to our families and others that we have served a higher cause, sometime in our lives, and reminding them about the importance of service to others is their key purpose, I believe. They are there to pass on memories and a sense of duty to other generations.

In the meantime my Dad's medals still sit, unframed, on the mantle piece for anyone to pick up and look at, and remember.
 

Kat Stevens

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Pusser said:
There is no actual requirement to wear medals that have been awarded.  So, if you feel one is not worthy, you don't have to wear it if you don't want to.

Again I've been misunderstood, clearly I don't articulate myself very well.  My medals were earned, therefore I wear them. None of them are war medals. Whatever rules are made, moved, folded, spindled or mutilated were not my concern then. They are even less so now. My original attempt was to draw an apparently not so humourous comparison between three months sweating your bag off at Swan Lake in the scenic Gagetown training area, and 45 (or 30, or 15, or an overflight) days sitting in air conditioned luxury in Florida or somewhere like that. Epic fail. Earned my medals, I wear them, but they're not the sum total of my service, just a result of it. Good for you guys who can sport an entire rack of in-the-shit medals, be proud, you deserve it. All I've got is "shit nickles" (not my term, but overheard in the legion more than once), so that's what I wear. I've now explained myself twice, I'm out of this one.
 

Pusser

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Journeyman said:
      :nod:

I have a set of ribbons that are just my deployments; I don't care about a Queen's Jubilee, a peacekeeping medal (for already having a peacekeeping medal  ::) ), etc.

:2c:

The Diamond Jubilee Medal was actually awarded on merit, so if you received one through the CAF, then obviously someone thought you did something worthwhile.  The Golden Jubilee Medal was an entirely different story...
 

Halifax Tar

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Pusser said:
The Diamond Jubilee Medal was actually awarded on merit, so if you received one through the CAF, then obviously someone thought you did something worthwhile.  The Golden Jubilee Medal was an entirely different story...

At a previous unit we were told the unit still had some to give out and if you wanted one to let your CoC know and why.  After that I was quite literally asked if I wanted one, and that I should just take one.  To which I declined.

No doubt you are correct in that it was meant to be merit based and give credit for those deserving but in practicality; on the deck plates... weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell it may have gone down a tad
differently at certain places.
 

mariomike

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Pusser said:
The Diamond Jubilee Medal was actually awarded on merit, so if you received one through the CAF, then obviously someone thought you did something worthwhile.  The Golden Jubilee Medal was an entirely different story...

See also,

Queen's Diamond Jubilee Super Thread 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/99042.125
23 pages.

Golden Jubilee Medals 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/263.0
2 pages.
 
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jollyjacktar

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Halifax Tar said:
At a previous unit we were told the unit still had some to give out and if you wanted one to let your CoC know and why.  After that I was quite literally asked if I wanted one, and that I should just take one.  To which I declined.

No doubt you are correct in that it was meant to be merit based and give credit for those deserving but in practicality; on the deck plates... weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell it may have gone down a tad
differently at certain places.

On FRE. it was about 60/40 between merit and meeting certain benchmarks that were set on awarding medals.  After seeing Justin Beiber getting one "just because", in his overalls, general respect for it amongst the crew took a serious hit.
 

Navy_Pete

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jollyjacktar said:
On FRE. it was about 60/40 between merit and meeting certain benchmarks that were set on awarding medals.  After seeing Justin Beiber getting one just because in his overalls, general respect for it amongst the crew took a serious hit.

I think it was the similar, with a mix of 'brownosers that filled in their own submission for their civvie bosses to submit' included.  There was enough disinterest in it that they had to put a second call out for 'nominations' and direct sections to meet a quota for nominations.  Then, there was the JB moment, along with a bunch of other highly questionable MP awards to civlians, and it was forever tarnished.
 

Pusser

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The way that commemorative medals work is that there are a number of "partner" organizations that are invited to participate in the program.  Once it is decided how many a partner organization will receive, it is up to them how they're awarded.  The CAF was allocated around 11,000 Diamond Jubilee Medals (the largest single allocation) out of a hard and fast total of 60,000.  Based on DH&R's advice, the CDS ordered that the CAF allocation would be awarded on merit and each Command received a sub-allocation.  Although the merit of some recipients may have been dubious, Commands were supposed to monitor this and so presumably, there were checks and balances.  I would argue that for the most part, the process was fair and the awards were appropriate, but all the scrutiny in the world won't stop some dubious awards from slipping through (there are some that still argue that Billy Bishop should not have been awarded his VC).

Other partner organizations did not necessarily apply the same standards as the CAF.  In fact, each MP received an allocation to award as they saw fit.  One MP even gave one to a convicted criminal - while they were in prison!  Nevertheless, this should not detract from the CAF awards.

Fun fact:  each Diamond Jubilee Medal came with a certificate signed by the Governor General.  The GG personally signed each and every certificate.  Although Rideau Hall actually has a machine that can replicate the GG's signature, Mr Johnson never used it and he insisted on signing everything personally.

Another Fun Fact:  If you look at all the Jubilee Medals (silver, gold and diamond) and the Queen's Coronation Medal, you will notice that they are all similar in design (placement of stripes and dimensions), but that the same colours are simply rearranged. The British had planned a very different ribbon design for the Diamond Jubilee, but it was Canada (DH&R in fact) that pointed out the pattern and recommended the ribbon that both Canada and the UK eventually adopted.  The Canadian and UK medals are different (ours is actually a lot cooler), but the ribbons are identical.  The Caribbean ribbon is also the same, except that the centre stripe is black vice red.
 
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