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House Hunting Trip (HHT) Lore (merged)

DaisyDee

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Zoomie said:
That's perfectly reasonable and per the manual.

I'm not disputing if tolls are reimbursed or not in this persons case or not, but what manual are you referring to?  And where exactly is this?  I don't recall anything in the two IRP manuals except them saying they will reimburse for tolls.  Again again, I have to double check but I am curious if you don't mind.
 

Zoomie

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BRGS has a detailed manual that delineates every single paragraph in the IRP contract.  They refer to it daily for further amplification.  In this persons case they would see that tolls/ferries/etc would only be reimbursable if and only if that route was the most direct.
 

DaisyDee

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Zoomie said:
BRGS has a detailed manual that delineates every single paragraph in the IRP contract.  They refer to it daily for further amplification.  In this persons case they would see that tolls/ferries/etc would only be reimbursable if and only if that route was the most direct.

So this is a manual they do not hand out to those moving?  If so, then it should be.  There is no way one could possible know every question to ask, and I take what is in the IRP hand outs as being correct, and it states they cover toll charges.  Not "Toll charges in certain circumstances", which would have me asking more questions because I am one of the few people who actually read and re-read those IRP booklets!

I am starting to become very frustrated with the lack of clarity during a move.  It's like we're given information, in writing, then told after the fact "oh but you can't do that.... or you have to do it THIS way in order to get reimbursed".... and, like I said, there's no way you can know every question to ask.  It would get as ridiculous as "Okay, I will be reimbursed for lodging but only if my husband and I don't sleep in the same bed" or "my kids have to eat breakfast standing up to get our daily meal allowance??".  Clearly these examples are very overboard, but I bet most people understand what I am getting at.  Simply saying "there's an IRP rep there for a reason" is not good enough, because I'm not going to stay on the cell phone the whole drive to our new place giving commentary to every action so we can ensure I'm not breaking any policies.

If I was not being reimbursed for tolls because it's not the shortest direct route, if I knew ahead of time, that is fair.  If I do my due diligence by reading the IRP manuals, asking questions where things are not clear (in the case of tolls to me that is clear, I will be reimbursed) and I end up not being reimbursed for whatever reason, that is unethical in my opinion.
 
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aesop081

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DaisyDee said:
So this is a manual they do not hand out to those moving? 

It is in the IRP manual that is available from the IRP website.
 
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aesop081

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DaisyDee said:
it states they cover toll charges.  Not "Toll charges in certain circumstances",

You are wrong and probably need to read the CF IRP manual a few more times.

if I knew ahead of time, that is fair.

See my quotes below from the CF IRP manual.


From the CF IRP manual, which you had access to :

3.3.04 Tolls, ferry and parking charges

you find :

CF members are entitled to reimbursement for actual and reasonable expenses
for all tolls and ferries when incurred as a result of travel by the most direct
route.

So, in other words, you knew. It is rather clear.
 

Cpl4Life

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Nothing to add about the toll bit, but I am very interested in Zoomie's comment about the detailed manual.  Is this manual available to mil pers who are doing an IRP move?

Zoomie said:
BRGS has a detailed manual that delineates every single paragraph in the IRP contract.  They refer to it daily for further amplification.  In this persons case they would see that tolls/ferries/etc would only be reimbursable if and only if that route was the most direct.
 
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aesop081

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A-PP-005-IRP-AG-001 Canadian Forces Integrated Relocation Program Directive

Its available on the secure website when you do a cost-move. Contains just about everything you need to know about policy.
 

Occam

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CDN Aviator said:
A-PP-005-IRP-AG-001 Canadian Forces Integrated Relocation Program Directive

Its available on the secure website when you do a cost-move. Contains just about everything you need to know about policy.

It's also available here on the internet, if you follow the link to the current year's Relocation Directive.
 

Cpl4Life

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Thanks, I didn't realize it was the directive everyone was referring to.  I thought there was a policy manual of sorts beyond this.  Thanks for clarifying.
 

babish88

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I am hearing multiple answers on this, that its annual or special relocation and wondering if anyone has a definite answer.
I have looked on http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2009-toc.page
and under http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2014-directive-amend-ch4.page

And http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/ch-208-relocation-benefits.page

But nothing clearly states what kind of leave is used during an HHT.
 

DAA

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tdot888 said:
I am hearing multiple answers on this, that its annual or special relocation and wondering if anyone has a definite answer.
I have looked on http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2009-toc.page
and under http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2014-directive-amend-ch4.page

And http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/ch-208-relocation-benefits.page

But nothing clearly states what kind of leave is used during an HHT.

You don't use leave!  You are on an "HHT" which was approved by your CO, so it's the same as being on "TD" but the benefits are being paid through Brookfield.
 

kev994

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I think he means the extra 4 days, you need some type of leave. My CO gave me 2 short and 2 special in 2012.
 

babish88

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I don't need any extra days, was just wondering what to put on my leave pass for the duration of the HHT. So I don't even need one? did one up for a few annual before and after it.
 

DAA

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kev994 said:
I think he means the extra 4 days, you need some type of leave. My CO gave me 2 short and 2 special in 2012.

I hope you're right!  But yes, if you are not successful in securing accommodations within the "standard" time frame (ie; 7-days and 6-nights) and need additional time, then you would be reqired to use some form of leave to cover the portion of the "extended" HHT.  But ONLY for the extended portion.
 

DAA

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tdot888 said:
I don't need any extra days, was just wondering what to put on my leave pass for the duration of the HHT. So I don't even need one? did one up for a few annual before and after it.

No, there is NO requirement for a leave pass because you are NOT on leave, you are on DUTY.  The HHT form that was approved at your Unit authorizing you to proceed on your HHT is all that is required.
 

Occam

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kev994 said:
I think he means the extra 4 days, you need some type of leave. My CO gave me 2 short and 2 special in 2012.

Be careful about that.  The current CFIRP Directive says:
4.1.03 Extended HHT
Personalized benefit
When the CO authorizes annual leave, CF members may extend the duration of a standard HHT by up to an additional four days/four nights, for the following purposes:

Finding accommodation; and
CF member/dependant issues.

CF members must make the necessary travel amendments.

While it might have been okay at one time to grant short/special, the current policy document only mentions annual, and I'd hate to see anyone get picked up on a overzealous leave audit and owe back some annual.
 

Pusser

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Occam said:
Be careful about that.  The current CFIRP Directive says:
While it might have been okay at one time to grant short/special, the current policy document only mentions annual, and I'd hate to see anyone get picked up on a overzealous leave audit and owe back some annual.

I think there is a strong argument to support the use of any form of legitimate leave.  However, it's always interesting when people start talking about Special Leave.  Special Leave is very specific in nature and can only be granted for specific reasons (e.g. Community Affairs, Education, Relocation, Christmas/New Year, etc.).  No CO has any authority whatsoever to simply grant two days leave and call it "Special."  It has to be for one of the reasons specifically given in the Leave Manual.  The only leave a CO can grant on his/her own judgement as to the reasons for it, is Short Leave and that is limited to two days per calendar month.
 

BinRat55

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Just in case someone is reading this thread and looking for the answer, here it is:

No leave is required to proceed on an HHT. Period. The member is considered on duty and the block in Monitor Mass has an option for putting a soldier on HHT. The HHT request form which goes through the member's CoC is usually kept (in copy) at the OR and as a Tp WO I kept copies as well in their shadow files.

I know this because we banged our heads for weeks last year attempting to come up with the right leave type. Our CO would not authorize special because there IS no special for HHT found anywhere in the CF Leave Manual. We were forced to figure this one out. Reading CBIs, CFAOs and Relocation Services Manual in conjunction with TB, the determination made was that HHT was duty much like TD. When a member proceeds on TD he/she is not on leave.

Hopefully this clears it up for future "lookers into-ers"!!
 

Lumber

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BinRat55 said:
Just in case someone is reading this thread and looking for the answer, here it is:

No leave is required to proceed on an HHT. Period. The member is considered on duty and the block in Monitor Mass has an option for putting a soldier on HHT. The HHT request form which goes through the member's CoC is usually kept (in copy) at the OR and as a Tp WO I kept copies as well in their shadow files.

I know this because we banged our heads for weeks last year attempting to come up with the right leave type. Our CO would not authorize special because there IS no special for HHT found anywhere in the CF Leave Manual. We were forced to figure this one out. Reading CBIs, CFAOs and Relocation Services Manual in conjunction with TB, the determination made was that HHT was duty much like TD. When a member proceeds on TD he/she is not on leave.

Hopefully this clears it up for future "lookers into-ers"!!

...with the exception that if you need to extend your HHT you can do so but must use annual leave.
 

BinRat55

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Lumber said:
...with the exception that if you need to extend your HHT you can do so but must use annual leave.

Yes, correct. In one instance this APS, the member has extenuating circumstances trying to find suitable accommodations for his wife a NINE kids... texted me and asked me what he should do as he was thus far unsuccessful (probably MORE successful in creating new life in the hotel they were in away from their NINE kids...

BLUF - The CO actually authorized 2 short, changing my annual to short days.

Apparently I have no compassion... ::)
 
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