Increased Suicide rates

[Trinity]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12428185/  repro in fair trade blah blah blah

Article is kinda lenghty to post so here's an excerpt

Many served in Iraq
Of the confirmed suicides last year, 25 were soldiers deployed to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars — which amounts to 40 percent of the 64 suicides by Army soldiers in Iraq since the conflict began in March 2003.

The suicide rate for the Army has fluctuated over the past 25 years, from a high of 15.8 per 100,000 in 1985 to a low of 9.1 per 100,000 in 2001. Last year it was nearly 13 per 100,000.

The Army recorded 90 suicides in 1993, with a suicide rate of 14.2 per 100,000.

The Army rate is higher than the civilian suicide rate for 2003, which was 10.8 per 100,000, according to the National Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But the Army number tracked closely with the rate for civilians aged 18-34, which was 12.19 per 100,000 in 2003.

The only thing that bothers me is that soldiers are screened for mental disability/disorders before joining.  That means in my understanding,
our(military) suicide figures DO NOT include those who are mentally ill or unstable like the civlian figures do.  THUS, we are breaking/losing an even
larger number of people that would not have commited suicide in the normal world.  So our figures are kinda fudged here because we don't
have the mentally ill patients or people pre disposed to it in our figure.  Take them out of the civilian figures (because we don't have them to equal things up)
and that means our suicide rate is higher.

Man.. its 0017 hrs.. i hope this makes sense...

i reserve the right to re read and change it tomorrow. 

 

[GINge!]

You have to figure that the deployment to Iraq may have caused other events to trigger suicide. One that comes to mind is divorce as a result of the spouse being away. Hard to predict how someone will react to a divorce etc on an enrollment screening.

 

[Adam]

http://www.suicidewall.com/SWStats.html
Above is a link to another sad statistic that acknowledges casualties from war continue long after the operation is over.

 

[Cansky]

Remember that this article is on the US military NOT CANADA.  They also screen their personnel differently than we do.  Not to say we are perfect, I can think of more than a few occasions when personel with psych issue were allowed in the military and on deployment.  We do try our best to screen these personnel, and ensure they don't get in the military and certainly not on deployment to places like Afghanistan.  The US is not as stringent.  I can think of one US soldier on my deployment to Kandahar, who was known to be a suicide risk with a long history of depression.  Not only did they send him to Kandahar, they put him on a observation post with a loaded weapon.  You can imagine what happen.  Yes he shot himself.  Unsuccessfully but try he did. Of course was sent home immedicatly  Never heard what happened after that.

 

[Trinity]

Ok..  then, at the very least, the figures for solider suicide in the states are sketchy.

I do have suicide rates for Canadian soldiers in my head from a suicide prevention course
I took but I'm afraid to type them because the course was a while ago and I can't say
100% they're right.

I'll have to search for a Canadian source, but, I wouldn't be surprised if my belief is
correct, that, soldiering causes a higher rate of suicide.

 

[Armymedic]

I can think of one US soldier on my deployment to Kandahar, who was known to be a suicide risk with a long history of depression.  Not only did they send him to Kandahar, they put him on a observation post with a loaded weapon.  You can imagine what happen.  Yes he shot himself.  Unsuccessfully but try he did. Of course was sent home immedicatly  Never heard what happened after that.

And I know of a couple of Canadian soldiers who have done the same thing, and more then a couple who have come back from deployment and then committed suicide, dispite all the "checks in the box" we go thru pre and post deployment.

During Roto 0 ISAF, and Roto 13 Bosnia predeployment tng, people who were classed "unfit" to go to Afghanistan, were sent to Bosnia instead. While deployed, the Bosnia mission had one confirmed suicide and several attempts. I do not know how many tried and succeeded since the return.

Deployments have, without a doubt in my mind, assisted increasing the suicide rate amongst our soldiers as well.

 

[Hot Lips]

Question?

Would it not be safe to say that some of these soldiers would have acute stress disorder...and so would it be safe to say that this is not being recognized...either because it isn't looked for (no signs) or someone denies there is a problem.

I know PTSD is what occurs when acute stress isn't dealt with in a timely manner and certainly possess more of a challenge in the line of treatment...so with that being said...and you were too just look at the stats for the Canadian population who has undergone some form of trauma ie. rape, murder witness...and so on, you get the gist...then would the stats be alot different or comparable.

I don't discount the other reasons, such as divorce and the lot but keep in mind that what affects someone today may not tomorrow and what stays with someone, may not stay with someone else...and you never know when or where or what may make that happen.

A-Stan would certainly increase the probability of incidents which might lead to acute stress and possible suicides...

HL

 

[Armymedic]

Question?

Would it not be safe to say that some of these soldiers would have acute stress disorder...and so would it be safe to say that this is not being recognized...either because it isn't looked for (no signs) or someone denies there is a problem.

No, this is one area that the post deployment screenings seek out very well. Also it is reinforced now by the chain of command, as it has been a problem. Now it is more often lesser forms of stress, piled on.

For instance, after my last and by far the best tour of my career so far, my largest stressor was making sure the family got out the door on time so I would not be late for work. Now if this was not dealt with well, it could have lead to larger problems, and possibly divorce as my fustrations mounted past the boiling point. Then depressed because of the divorce, loss of family...etc, etc...

But that stressor was a result of me being away from my family for 6 months, not because of events during the tour.

 

[the 48th regulator]

No, this is one area that the post deployment screenings seek out very well. Also it is reinforced now by the chain of command, as it has been a problem. Now it is more often lesser forms of stress, piled on.

Finally,

Armymedic How is this done?  Would be very interesting to Llearn how things are now for troops that are returning.

Would be useful for our Release, Retirement & SCAN threads.

It took me over ten years to find the help, thanks to OSISS.

dileas

tess

 

[orange.paint]

I now my past roto we went through book upon book of rating how you felt how your family was doing and it basically covered everything in your life prior and after tour.Even a couple biys put down that they had blacked out drunk (as young guys do) after tour and they had to see a counceller IIRC 3 times after that.

We are well looked after now compared to the tours in the early Bosnia days.

 

[the 48th regulator]

That is a good thing to hear,

It took a long time coming,

dileas

tess

 

[Hot Lips]

k, well here goes...I am going to play Devil's Advocate...forgive me padre 

Non-military people go through divorce...many people are away from their families for extended periods of time in different careers...so I guess I wonder...is there something else besides that that has an effect on CF members for their rates of suicide to be higher?

HL

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Not just divorces, but im sure the never ending re-deployments to Iraq probobly has something to do with it ....

 

[Trinity]

Not just divorces, but im sure the never ending re-deployments to Iraq probobly has something to do with it ....

I think she meant CF......  you stated Iraq

But in our case (CF), A-stan would be appropriate.

But I know what you mean Mack

 

[jmackenzie_15]

I think she meant CF......  you stated Iraq

But in our case (CF), A-stan would be appropriate.

But I know what you mean Mack

I was referring to the article, talking about the american troops and how their suicide rates are up...... just pointing out that its probobly because they were in iraq being blown up for 3 years with no end in sight. Love the stoploss idea, very ingenuitive  :

 

[Hot Lips]

I was thinking about this topic further and decided to dig a little more into the mental health issues and stats for the CF here is a link and it is interesting to note that for the mental illnesses CF members have a higher percentage in most cases than the average Joe Canadian.

Another issue that I have noted in this info is the stats for alcoholism in the CF...they are quite a bit higher than the Canadian population on whole...this disease is often has a co-morbidity with another mental illness...including suicide.

A little FYI
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health/information/op_health/stats_can/engraph/MH_Survey_e.asp#3

HL

 

[George Wallace]

Not to dispute your statistics, but I always find it odd that the CF is so often singled out for these high rates of Alcoholism and Suicides.  Does Ford or GM keep statistics of how many of their workers walk out of their plants and across the street to the local pub?  Do they keep tally of how many of their employees commit suicide?  The CF is notorious for keeping statistics on its' employees, but I am sure that they are more the exception than the rule.  Other large Corporations and Organizations are not as likely to.  Are there accurate statistics keep of Public Civil Servants on these matters?  I think not, as it would be a huge question of Privacy amongst the 'Civilian' work force.  I tend to actually see these statistics as being a reflection as to what the norm is amongst Canada's work force that are employed in stressfull jobs, like Law Enforcement, Medical Emergency Services, Fire Services, and the like; not just the Military.

 

[paracowboy]

I'll have to search for a Canadian source, but, I wouldn't be surprised if my belief is
correct, that, soldiering causes a higher rate of suicide.

Padre, I thought that was a given?

Suicides and drug addictions are commonly higher amongst the trades/occupations that deal extensively with the negative aspects of humanity, ie doctors, nurses, Law Enforcement, EMTs, the Military, etc. When you factor in the elements of personal risk, and the traumas undergone, (which are also known to create mental disorders related to Stress), it's only natural to expect even higher statistics.

One more sacrifice we face. Fortunately, the CF has an excellent system to deal with it, and (on a personal level) I've always been a little nuts, so it doesn't surprise anyone who knows me.

 

[Hot Lips]

George,

There are statistics on nurses, firefighters, RCMP and the list goes on...
Just thought the link would add some info to the thread...

HL

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

There is no perfect system, but our deployed mental health services are pretty damned good.  I should note that I include US mental health professionals in that as well.  The chain of command is also more in tune with the concept, as many of the Sr NCOs and higher-level officers have seen trauma on previous tours and know what it can do.

Cheers,

2B