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Initiatives launched to retain and increase RCAF personnel experience levels

Eye In The Sky

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Is that PI meaning Pay Incentive 17 ?
SAR Techs are going up to a PI Basic -> PI 14 model for all ranks. Cpl 5A PI 14 = $12k and change/month. CWO PI 14 = $15k and change a month.

Starting pay, Cpl 5A, PI Basic; $8995. That is substantially more than I currently make as a Spec 1 WO.
 

dapaterson

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When they were getting Spec 2 plus SAR allowance, how much were they making?
 

dimsum

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The ACSOs are already used to being in charge of people that make more money than them. I was speaking to the WComd about that and told him that I figured being boss of people that make more money than you does not take money out of your own pocket, so don’t worry about it.
Hopefully that doesn't translate to "let's not change anything" then. This initiative, if thought out, can (and should) be applied to all trades that have that sort of progression. ACSO, AES Op, AEC come to mind right away, but I'm sure there are others.

It makes sense for a TACCO crew commander, for example, to get paid more than the B-Cat, but especially rolling of AIRCRA to pay for pension reasons.
 

Eye In The Sky

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When they were getting Spec 2 plus SAR allowance, how much were they making?

Cpl 5A, Spec 2, PI 4 is $6811. Rescue Specialist Allowance starts at $595 and maxes out at $970 (for over 216 points). So, max "as of today" is $7781.

Probably not a lot of Cpls out there with 216 points...that would = 18 years in SAR Tech positions that involved 'doing SAR'.
 

TCM621

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It's all about market value. Short of fixing systemic issues, money, comparable to the private sector, is what will keep people in. Same thing as doctors, dentists and lawyers.

FWIW, the co-pilot will likely make less than the any ACSOs on the plane. PIs are tied to qualification. First Officer won't make it past PI 12 (which is where the pay increases towards market value). Up to Capt PI 9, pilots will make less than GSOs.

I understand the reasons behind it and it makes sense. Primarily I have an issue with the idea that Capts who fly all the time and are constantly on TD will be making the same as the guy riding a desk and having dinner with his family every night. Allowances are supposed to be compensation for that extra hardship.

I also have a major issue with the tone deaf way they presented it. We already have a "Pilots are a bunch on entitled brats" subcurrent in the RCAF and this will exacerbate it. Especially since they had no concrete plans for paying the people who spend 12 hour + days making 40 year old aircraft safe to fly anything beyond an almost cost of living adjustment.

Maybe I'm getting older and simple; anything that increases my pension is a good thing for me. AIRCRA is extra money, for certain but to put it into context, I was flying 120hrs/month on IMPACT for Lvl 2 AIRCRA ($397/month). That works out to about $3.31/hr; needless to say...I wasn't flying "for the money". My Ops FPS, HA - HA bonus, RA etc were all the same as those folks at ASAB who were not flying. I'd like to think people who wear wings are doing so because they enjoy military aviation, not purely for that AIRCRA (that isn't worth that much, after taxes...).

I'll take, say $400-$500...add it to my current pay (happily!)...and then I can see value in it "in the future". I'm talking the 65 years old, retired, indexing and suddenly that (70% of $400/500/month) addition to my pension. If I depart the fix before my wife, she should have some extra funds every month because "AIRCRA was absorbed into salary". Maybe not enough to buy that yacht...but some.

The big question from the v-briefing I attended yesterday was the "so, should we stop getting AIRCRA now so we don't end up in an arrears situation in year?" from one of the Plts.

I was more interested in the SAR Tech piece, as that is likely a model that has potential to hit my trade. I thought "those are some decent numbers". Am I being too positive? I saw the Gates for Pilots and they seem to make more sense...I'm not sure there is a selling piece for NCMs who are say, WOs, who are working in a Standard flight and therefore should make more than the Sqn Ops WO, who is standards qual'd/experienced but moved to Ops for a different tic in the box...
The issue I have with the way we do allowances is that there is no benefit to being in a high tempo position anymore. I'm not sure exactly if AIRCRA works the same so correct me if I am wrong but for sea pay and field pay, you don't even needs to go to sea or the field. You just have to be in a designated position. In the old days if you got posted to a unit with a high tempo you could expect a financial reward for that while the person who was at a unit that rarely went into the field got a social reward in terms of family life. This appears to take it one step further. If you have the same MOC you get the same pay whether you are flying all over Hell's half acre with the Hercs or in a staff job in Winnipeg.
 

SupersonicMax

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Also, of interesting note, pay is now also protected for pilots forced to COT, as CBI 204.03(3) was repealed.

It used to read:

"204.03(3) (Exception - compulsory occupational transfer) Paragraph (2) of this instruction does not apply to:

  1. pilots who are paid under CBI 204.215 (Pay - Officers - Pilots); or
  2. non-commissioned members who are appointed to the rank of officer cadet or to whom an officer entry plan referred to in CBI 204.211 (Pay - General Service Officers - Officer Entry Plans - Lieutenant, Second Lieutenant and Officer Cadet ) applies."
 

kev994

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Also, of interesting note, pay is now also protected for pilots forced to COT, as CBI 204.03(3) was repealed.

It used to read:

"204.03(3) (Exception - compulsory occupational transfer) Paragraph (2) of this instruction does not apply to:

  1. pilots who are paid under CBI 204.215 (Pay - Officers - Pilots); or
  2. non-commissioned members who are appointed to the rank of officer cadet or to whom an officer entry plan referred to in CBI 204.211 (Pay - General Service Officers - Officer Entry Plans - Lieutenant, Second Lieutenant and Officer Cadet ) applies."
As someone who is mostly deaf from flying hercs I have to say Wooooooooooooo!!!!
 

SupersonicMax

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Primarily I have an issue with the idea that Capts who fly all the time and are constantly on TD will be making the same as the guy riding a desk and having dinner with his family every night. Allowances are supposed to be compensation for that extra hardship.
That's what TD allowances and AIRCRA allowances are for. Granted, they would need to be upped a bit.

I also have a major issue with the tone deaf way they presented it. We already have a "Pilots are a bunch on entitled brats" subcurrent in the RCAF and this will exacerbate it. Especially since they had no concrete plans for paying the people who spend 12 hour + days making 40 year old aircraft safe to fly anything beyond an almost cost of living adjustment.
So, because it could upset some folks, we should just let the bleeding happen? And also, Captains will make the same as other Captains GSOs (or less, for now) for almost a decade before they can aspire to better salaries, and this is contingent upon getting certain qualifications.

I do think the pay raise missed the mark on the target audience. The pay raise is great for LCol and good for Majors but those folks are generally close enough to retirement that the pension is what will keep them in rather than a pay boost. I predict a bigger exodus of Capts at the end of their restricted release period given the kick in the teeth from a lower salary (compared to before) and the time it takes to make up for the "lost" income.
 

daftandbarmy

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That's what TD allowances and AIRCRA allowances are for. Granted, they would need to be upped a bit.


So, because it could upset some folks, we should just let the bleeding happen? And also, Captains will make the same as other Captains GSOs (or less, for now) for almost a decade before they can aspire to better salaries, and this is contingent upon getting certain qualifications.

I do think the pay raise missed the mark on the target audience. The pay raise is great for LCol and good for Majors but those folks are generally close enough to retirement that the pension is what will keep them in rather than a pay boost. I predict a bigger exodus of Capts at the end of their restricted release period given the kick in the teeth from a lower salary (compared to before) and the time it takes to make up for the "lost" income.


There are also some unintended consequences connected to incentive pay programs:

Research: How Incentive Pay Affects Employee Engagement, Satisfaction, and Trust​

Most managers would agree that motivated, productive employees are crucial for organizational success, regardless of company size, industry, or corporate strategy. The question is how to motivate them. Offering employees performance-based incentive pay is one common approach, and it usually takes one of two forms: bonuses are offered to individuals based on assessments of their performance, or bonuses are offered as organization-wide incentives, such as profit-related pay or share ownership.

Sometimes, these incentives work in ways managers intended them to. But there are ways in which these methods of performance pay can backfire, causing contentious behaviors among employees, complaints about unfair pay distribution, or overwork and stress. Although these critical issues represent real problems for many businesses, little progress has been made in gathering evidence on how different incentive pay schemes — performance-related pay, profit-related pay, and share ownership — might affect employee well-being.

But our results regarding work intensity and individual-based incentive pay should give managers pause. In some circumstances, performance-related pay may be experienced as a burden that only provides extra pay for workers through an intensification of the work process. This raises critical questions regarding the extent to which individual-based incentives can influence employee well-being in a sustainable way.

Research: How Incentive Pay Affects Employee Engagement, Satisfaction, and Trust
 

Eye In The Sky

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The issue I have with the way we do allowances is that there is no benefit to being in a high tempo position anymore. I'm not sure exactly if AIRCRA works the same so correct me if I am wrong but for sea pay and field pay, you don't even needs to go to sea or the field. You just have to be in a designated position. In the old days if you got posted to a unit with a high tempo you could expect a financial reward for that while the person who was at a unit that rarely went into the field got a social reward in terms of family life. This appears to take it one step further. If you have the same MOC you get the same pay whether you are flying all over Hell's half acre with the Hercs or in a staff job in Winnipeg.

You're correct on the "in a designated flying position". Heck you can be grounded on a T Cat for several months, with "unfit flying duties" as a MEL and you still get AIRCRA (up to the 180 day mark...).

There are other benefits to being at the pointy end, aside from AIRCRA which I already broke down for LRP flying in Iraq/Syria as around 3 bucks an hour.

Financially, I always made WAY more money off Ops FSP/HA/RA and /or the TD itself than AIRCRA will ever be worth. Speaking from a purely monetary perspective, even exercises were normally "pretty gucci" as we'd be on full per diem, in hotels, etc. One example, I went to Scotland for a month in hotels, lived well while there, traveled on non-flying days to castles, historical sites, etc. I maxed out my tax free amount of 'stuff to bring home' ($800 CAD), and I had money 'left over' when my claim was finalized. Exercise locations themselves are pretty gucci; UK, Sicily, Norway...

I seriously lucked out and did a Det once for Projection; started off with a 2 week layover (prev-COVID) in a 3rd location in hotels with rentals, then stayed in Hawaii, Guam, Okinawa, Tokyo, Misawa (including extra "waiting for parts" days in Okinawa, Guam and Hawaii :D) and included a Remembrance Service at Asan Beach in Guam, complete with a fly-past from a B-52 from Andersen. I also brought home my $800 CAD and a bit more in shopping (once in a lifetime opportunity, right?) and had a decent amount of change left over when my claim was finalized.

Those all easily outweigh the AIRCRA/"someone at the OSS makes the same salary as me" aspects....

(After writing that, I can't understand why people aren't fighting to get into LRP... 🤷‍♂️ )
 
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Sf2

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Here's a plot twist. What about 427 Sqn pilots? Historically, they didn't get AIRCRA because they get SOA instead. Now they will essentially get both since AIrCRA gets rolled into base salary?
 

Eye In The Sky

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Also, of interesting note, pay is now also protected for pilots forced to COT, as CBI 204.03(3) was repealed.

WAG here, but the assumption must be that anyone who is a COT 'for inefficiency' will be at the lower PIs anyways, and this protects those who suddenly find themselves AF3 after years of flying for the Mob.
 

dimsum

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Here's a plot twist. What about 427 Sqn pilots? Historically, they didn't get AIRCRA because they get SOA instead. Now they will essentially get both since AIrCRA gets rolled into base salary?
I don't begrudge them that. Can you even go straight to 427 as a first-tour?
 

SeaKingTacco

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You're correct on the "in a designated flying position". Heck you can be grounded on a T Cat for several months, with "unfit flying duties" as a MEL and you still get AIRCRA (up to the 180 day mark...).

There are other benefits to being at the pointy end, aside from AIRCRA which I already broke down for LRP flying in Iraq/Syria as around 3 bucks an hour.

Financially, I always made WAY more money off Ops FSP/HA/RA and /or the TD itself than AIRCRA will ever be worth. Speaking from a purely monetary perspective, even exercises were normally "pretty gucci" as we'd be on full per diem, in hotels, etc. One example, I went to Scotland for a month in hotels, lived well while there, traveled on non-flying days to castles, historical sites, etc. I maxed out my tax free amount of 'stuff to bring home' ($800 CAD), and I had money 'left over' when my claim was finalized. Exercise locations themselves are pretty gucci; UK, Sicily, Norway...

I seriously lucked out and did a Det once for Projection; started off with a 2 week layover (prev-COVID) in a 3rd location in hotels with rentals, then stayed in Hawaii, Guam, Okinawa, Tokyo, Misawa (including extra "waiting for parts" days in Okinawa, Guam and Hawaii :D) and included a Remembrance Service at Asan Beach in Guam, complete with a fly-past from a B-52 from Andersen. I also brought home my $800 CAD and a bit more in shopping (once in a lifetime opportunity, right?) and had a decent amount of change left over when my claim was finalized.

Those all easily outweigh the AIRCRA/"someone at the OSS makes the same salary as me" aspects....

(After writing that, I can't understand why people aren't fighting to get into LRP... 🤷‍♂️ )
Because, every time I ride on the SGOD, it turns into a low level torture fest and I puke. For hours. No thanks. I will take my 2.5hr mission and my rack on a ship (even a moving one) any day.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Ya...I guess AES OPs are at least sitting facing forward or rear most of the time (we ran RADAR/ESM from one of the ASO seats on IMPACT...that was weird at first). I remember a few on the TacRail who did not enjoy MAD flying, MAD Comps (Blk 3 MAD comp is much easier on the crew...).

I always felt bad for the folks who took the airsickness meds. Especially if they took them and then we CNXd.
 

lenaitch

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Apologies perhaps for taking this thread on a bit of a tangent, but a friend of ours through our daughter has been fighting release due a medical condition. During that time, courses, promotion and posting were all on hold as he worked through the various appeal avenues. Last summer he was told all is good - they are re-drafting the 'universality' guidelines. He got his courses, a promotion and a cross-country posting. Sold his house and had the confidence to start a family. Two days ago, he received his notice of release.

He is otherwise extremely fit, well educated and dedicated (well, perhaps not now) and, in my opinion, an asset to the CAF.

I'm not going to pass judgement on whether the medical condition does or doesn't justify release, but perhaps if the CAF didn't jerk its people around it might get a better reputation as an employer.

End rant.
 
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