MARS Training

[ekpiper]

Hello everyone.  I'm currently a Corporal with the E&K Scots, and I am an R871 musician (bagpiper).  I am going through university for a computer science degree, and I think that once I am done, I will go in to become a MARS officer.  By that time, I should be roughly a sergeant.  Will I still need to go through Basic Officer Training if I change trades and elements?  Is any merit given to the PLQ course and time in?  Thanks for your input,
ekpiper

 

[Drag]

The PLQ should write off your IAP at least...  I heard something about the Army considering their PLQ a BOTP equivalent too.  Navy, I am not sure.  I am sure someone will set me straight on this pretty soon

 

[PMedMoe]

Big thread regarding that here.  It may have some answers for you.

 

[ComdCFRG]

ekpiper, what is holding you back from making the change right now under the ROTP programme?

 

[ekpiper]

Hello everyone.  I'm planning on becoming a Reg Force MARS officer, and I'm trying to decide whether ROTP or DEO would be the best course for me.

I am currently a Corporal with the Army, specifically a bagpiper.  So to sum up, I'm going from Army, Reserve, NCM, Musician to Navy, Regular, Officer, MARS.  As a result of it being such a completely unrelated field, even as a Sergeant I don't think I'd be given much in the form of equivalence were I to go DEO at the end of my degree.

If I went ROTP, what would my summers be comprised of?  I'm guessing BOTC would be one summer, and maybe a small amount of SLT.  Would I go to the NOAB before or after I get accepted into ROTP?  Do you get payment for the whole year?  (i.e. $1443/month for 12 months)  I'm going to be on a Class B this summer, and I believe the deadline for ROTP has passed for this summer anyways, so when should I apply, and when would it take effect?  I have 3 years left in my degree as of September 2009, so how long would my commitment be?  Where would I be in my career at the end of two summers?

Thank you in advance for all information and advice,
ekpiper

 

[Monsoon]

The navy does consider PLQ and PO2 rank to be equivalent to IAP/BOTP; under normal circumstances all a PO2 needs to do is an "officership colloquium" of two weeks. The entry plan would be CFR rather than DEO or ROTP.

Possible complications:

- Militia PLQ isn't exactly the same as reg force/NAVRES PLQ . Yes it covers all of the same material, but it grants a slightly different MITE code. I don't know why the militia always does that sort of thing, but they do and that makes getting equivalencies difficult. In any case, you should be able to get the qualification through a prior learning assessment (PLA).

- Not sure if the naval reg force CFR program is open to non-element reservists. I can't think of any particular reason why it wouldn't be, but it bears looking into the regulations to make sure. If the regs don't support a one-step approach, consider going CFR in NAVRES and then transferring to the regular force after MARS training.

 

[WWPD]

Dude.  I, too, was commissioned as a MARS officer after having been a Private in a highland regiment.  Question is, now that you've reached sergeant., why on EARTH wouly you want to change trades AND become an officer?  YOu will spent so much time as a junior officer in your new trade with rare true leadership opportunities and start from scratch.  As someone who's seen both sides, man, stick with being a MCpl or Sergeant.  YOu will really expand your leadership and impact more as a Sergeant.  Trust me, officers get WAY less respect then Sergeants/MCpls. 

Unless you have always wanted to be a MARS officer, go to another trade.  The MARS trade is really challenging and has few rewards in the early stages.  If it IS your chosen trade for life, then GO FOR IT.  Otherwise, stick with what you got.  Being an officer is not the leadership bonanza it's cracked up to be.. at least until you hit Lt(N).  Even then.... it's tough and you kind of have to eat your own children.  Be prepared for loneliness. 

 

[ekpiper]

EDIT:
I never saw the replies to my thread, so my apologies for starting a new thread.  This is mostly a response to ComdCFRG and HamiltonGS, as well as WWPD.   Also, I am frankly not keen on doing another Basic Course if it can be helped.
/EDIT

Four things are holding me back from going ROTP:
1) I am very loyal to my regiment, and in our current state, my loss would be a fairly bad blow to the band.  I'm training 4 or 5 others right now, and I have a good amount of knowledge in piping.

2) I go to Ceremonial Guard in the summers, and I get a lot of unique experiences during that time.  I also will make fairly good money during the summer ($138/day for 3.5 months), so I'm not certain which is the best move financially.

3) I'm not certain where I will be at the end of my degree with the regiment, and if it will hold any weight.  The CT is such a unique circumstance, that Recruiting isn't sure what would happen hypothetically.  If I become the Pipe Major for my regiment for example, that may hold a fair bit of weight, on top of the Sergeant's Rank.  I'm next in line for it, so that is a consideration.  I don't know what happens during the summer months of ROTP for a MARS officer, given that I would have 2 summers (2010 and 2011) to do training.    The PLQ is not a definite thing of course, and a musician's PLQ has less field work than the standard PLQ, as in we only do the Small Party Tasking component of Mod 6.

4) I don't know what level of commitment I will have after 2/3 years of ROTP...When will I be accepted for MARS?  Before or after BOTP?
I'm not 100% sure that that is what I want, only about 90%.  

To WWPD:
I am a Corporal now, with 5 months at the rank.  I will be a sergeant in Sept. 2009, with merely 3 years in, and a musician no less.  That is because of 1 year to Cpl. (Musicians Only), and then 2 to Mpl, + accelerated promotion to sergeant since I will have my QL6a's within the next year and a half.  To be honest, we get no respect, and I understand why.  I don't fully agree with it, but I respect Combat Arms trades for their dedication.  I have wanted to be a naval officer for some time, and I don't think that I would go Reg. Force NCM.

 

[George Wallace]

I think we need to look at several things here, that have been redundantly posted.  First, 'maturity' may be my first concern.  It has been stated that he is 5 months in the rank of Cpl and will soon be a Sgt, should be opening up a few questions about his realistic expectations of the CF.  As a Bandsman, and not an Infantryman, in an Infantry Regiment should raise a few more eyebrows as to his qualifications as a leader.  Has he done the complete PLQ?  Total length of time in the Reserves, really doesn't give him much real exposure to the CF.  Just because he is going to university, does not give him the "entitlement" to become an officer.  In a way, I am becoming more convinced as this thread progresses, that the OP is not ready (mature enough) at this time to contemplate MARS.

 

[ekpiper]

My intention of posting the short length of time was not meant to say that I am capable as a leader, or incredibly deservant of a commission.  I meant it in that it would not be considered much experience by anyone, including myself.  Assuming it goes through, I would be getting the rank for musical ability, and likely not leadership.

At the same time, a basic course with calling out timings and learning drill is not something that I feel I should repeat if I have a PLQ, regardless of trade.  Perhaps that means an IAP bypass would be what I'm looking for.  That may be a somewhat arrogant statement, given what I've read about WOs taking Basic Officer Training. I may have to take it, and if I do, I'll be more than willing.  I'm now heavily leaning towards ROTP, and if I do, I will not have a PLQ, so the point may be irrelevant.

With regards to the OP versus the more recent post which was merged, I was not contemplating ROTP at that time, and I am now.  As a result, I wanted to get more information on that schedule and progression to see which would bring me further along in my career.  I had not realized that this original post was so similar, and I had also forgotten that I had made the post.

 

[aesop081]

1) I am very loyal to my regiment, and in our current state, my loss would be a fairly bad blow to the band.  

No one is irreplacable. Your regiment will do just fine without you.

 

[ekpiper]

I find forums cause confusion sometimes, so I'll try to give a brief explanation to clarify this thread.  In December, I made this thread concerning PLQ equivalence because I intended to go DEO after university.  I recently decided to consider ROTP.  I created a new thread to gather information on the different career courses of MARS officers between ROTP and DEO, and to find out if NOAB is before you are accepted into ROTP, or after you graduate.  I am concerned about that, because if I am committed to serving after university, and I'm not in MARS, I may not have another MOC alternative.  The threads were merged, and that is why there is double posted information about my circumstances.  When I'm done university, I will have just under 5 years in.  If all goes as I've been told, I may be a Sergeant for about 1.5 years by then.

To CDNAviator:
I am the only trained, active duty musician in my regiment.  I know that they will get along, but I still feel as though my presence is a benefit.

The information I want out of this thread is:
1) What are the course and rank progressions over 2 summers of ROTP for MARS.

2) Where will I be at the end of University with ROTP.

3) In your opinion, which will be more advantageous to my goal of becoming a MARS officer, ROTP or DEO?

 

[George Wallace]

The information I want out of this thread is:
1) What are the course and rank progressions over 2 summers of ROTP for MARS.

2) Where will I be at the end of University with ROTP.

3) In your opinion, which will be more advantageous to my goal of becoming a MARS officer, ROTP or DEO?

1)  Very little.  Most will find no rank progression until after Phase III or IV.

2)  You will have a Degree and be finishing off what Phase Trg you have not completed in the previous two summers.

3)  Your best bet is to visit a CFRC and see what Entry Plan you are best suited for, what career route you would like to take, and get the most up to date info from them.  For some DEO may be more advantageous.  For others ROTP.  Still others may want to enter under one of the other Plans.  Get off your butt and pay them a visit.  You may have other options you never thought of.

 

[ekpiper]

Thank you George, that does clear some things up.  I went to the recruiting centre twice, and they spent their time explaining other trades, and giving me very little information specific to MARS.  They tried to push me towards Hot Jobs and also tried to find a more purposeful use of my Computer Science major.  I am set on MARS, which is why I came here.  It seems Commission For the Ranks is not available, given the size of the change I am making, and they mentioned nothing else other than DEO and ROTP.
Do you become an A/SLt after Basic officer training, or just before you enter Phase III?

 

[George Wallace]

The CFRC will try to find a career for you based on your credentials (education and experience).  They will give you suggestions.  You can accept of not accept them.  It is your life and career goals that you must make your decisions on, not someone else's, and if you want MARS, go MARS.  They can give you the best advice, on what stage you are at in your education as to what Plan you would be best to apply for.

As soon as you are accepted to MARS you will be an OCdt or A/SLt and then enter into BMOQ trg.

 

[ltmaverick25]

If  you are currently a reservist and you want to go MARS officer reg force the process is simple enough.  All you have to do is submit a CT request online and away you go.  Because you are going from NCM to officer and from band to MARS its going to be a more complex process then normal.  This could take as long as a year to complete.

As for the PLQ and equivalencies.  If you have not done the full MOD 6 then you will only be granted the IAP bypass.  If you completed the PLQ Land you will get IAP/BOTP and CAP written off (you wont need CAP for MARS).  The BOTP part is about 4 weeks long.  Two weeks in the classroom and then two weeks in the field.

If MARS is what you really want to do, and your marks in school are decent, then just apply for ROTP.  Why the hell not?  It really is the best option.  The overall rate of pay may get a bit borked for you, but you arent having to pay for tuition or anything like that anymore.  In my opinion, if ROTP is available to you and you dont take it, then your nuts!  ;D