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Methadone and Suboxone in the CF

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Hi all! Given the increasing rates of opioid addiction throughout society as a whole, I was wondering if I could get some feedback as to how methadone or Suboxone treatment is viewed in the CF. Are methadone/sub patients ostracized and completely peered out or are they accepted into their peer groups on the knowledge that they're trying to get better. Or, am I missing the boat completely here? Does the CF have a policy where if you're on Methadone, you cannot serve until the duration of the treatment has completed?

As I said earlier in the post, opioid abuse is skyrocketing, especially in Canada's "OxyContin Corridor" that runs from London to Windsor. While Purdue Pharma, the producers of OxyContin have produced OxyNEO, which is substantially more difficult to abuse, I give it a matter of time before the badly addicted find out a way to circumvent OxyNEO's tricks.......or move on to the latest drug de jour. Before I digress too much, how is this prescription narcotic epidemic affecting the CF and what is the CF doing to curtail it? I genuinely hope that the CF can stomp out oxy abuse before it  becomes even more of a problem.
 

Fishbone Jones

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We've fielded enough complaints about your questions.

We're not here for your private guinea pigs.

Push to shove? Take a hike.

You were pushed from here before because of the situation.

I'd be more than happy to do it again. That's about the only hint you're getting.
 

Nemo888

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I was heavily PHYSICALLY addicted to oxy after my injury.  Big freaking deal. Burny skin and some discomfort for a week. Quitting smoking was way harder.  I don't see how quitting could be that hard. Maybe if you take it for an injury it's different. If you can't quit oxy your pain threshold is way to low to be in the Army in the first place. I still have a bottle with 49 left gathering dust in the closet somewhere. Been years though. Should probably throw them out.
 
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Nemo888 said:
I was heavily PHYSICALLY addicted to oxy after my injury.  Big freaking deal. Burny skin and some discomfort for a week. Quitting smoking was way harder.  I don't see how quitting could be that hard. Maybe if you take it for an injury it's different. If you can't quit oxy your pain threshold is way to low to be in the Army in the first place. I still have a bottle with 49 left gathering dust in the closet somewhere. Been years though. Should probably throw them out.

It's not just the physical withdrawals that add to the complications of opioid withdrawal. While they play a large role, you also have to remember that prolonged opioid abuse essentially causes the amygdala of the brain to be "re-wired" to the extent where a severe user will continue to seek out the drug, despite being on a maintenance program. In situations like this, long-term, if not permanent opioid replacement theory is required to essentially "wire the brain" properly. As a side note, if you've ever been truly "dopesick" you'll know that it's no joke whatsoever. You were likely on oxycodone for a small amount of time to deal with an acute injury, not nearly enough time to acquire a tolerance required to be really dopesick. Quitting is THAT hard and requires professional help and is often a process that takes years, if not an entire lifetime. 
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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BadEnoughDude said:
Quitting is THAT hard and requires professional help and is often a process that takes years, if not an entire lifetime. 

Bullshit.................I see people who quit in weeks all the time................and I sure am not a "professional".
Those that don't just aren't committed enough, just like losing weight, being faithful, cigarettes, etc......
 

Redeye

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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Bullshit.................I see people who quit in weeks all the time................and I sure am not a "professional".
Those that don't just aren't committed enough, just like losing weight, being faithful, cigarettes, etc......

Maybe. And they're likely the people who say "Quitting's easy, I've done it thousands of times". My cousin "quit" heroin several times. Finally he got onto methadone maintenance, but even that doesn't work perfectly. He couldn't sleep one night, and wound up overdosing. What the above poster said about how prolonged opiate abuse impacts the brain is actually quite true. It's not so simple to quit.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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All methodone does is prolong the addiction, but the medical world makes money on it so it won't stop anytime soon. Not to mention it gets the junkie out of the Docttors office easier, just like renewing the Oxy prescription.

[and no I don't have a Doctor's degree, I've just been witness to the methadone program for the last 23 years]
 

Strike

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Bruce Monkhouse said:
All methodone does is prolong the addiction...

Bruce, it's also been found as a suitable alternative for chronic pain management, as my sister discovered several years ago after having to go in to detox because her doc kept prescribing her higher doses of morphine.  (She cannot take aspirin-based drugs.)

She's been on it in pill form ever since.  Unfortunately attitudes like your is why she has trouble every time she has to go to the hospital to get treatments for her kidney stones, bladder infections etc., because people think only addicts are on methadone.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Bruce is speaking of methadone in relation to addiction, not as a treatment for pain.

Just sayin' :dunno:
 

Strike

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recceguy said:
Bruce is speaking of methadone in relation to addiction, not as a treatment for pain.

Just sayin' :dunno:

I know.  It's just frustrating that people only seem  to equate it to addicts when it is starting to be used for other things as well.
 

Redeye

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Bruce Monkhouse said:
All methodone does is prolong the addiction, but the medical world makes money on it so it won't stop anytime soon. Not to mention it gets the junkie out of the Docttors office easier, just like renewing the Oxy prescription.

[and no I don't have a Doctor's degree, I've just been witness to the methadone program for the last 23 years]

It replaces one addiction with another one, which in many (but not all, as my cousin found out) cases is safer - it accomplishes harm reduction as well, because it gets the addict away from all the knock-on effects of drug use - petty crime, transmission of bloodborne diseases, and so on.

While Bruce is right that an addict can stop using for a while, weather the storm of being "dopesick", and possibly stay clean, it would appear that that's very rare, in part because of the physiological effects of long term use. Use of opiates over time changes the way the brain's opiate receptors work. And no, recceguy, I'm not a doctor, but suffice it to say I've had a long term interest in pharmacology, addiction, and related topics. It's a product of my own life experiences. I probably should have gone down that career path, but when I was in high school I don't think I realized that.

Are replacement therapies the best way to deal with opiate addicts? I'm not sure - I'm not going to delve into studies to see in detail (I have lots of time to read all sorts of interesting stuff at the moment, but that's not doing it for me), but it seems that way - intensive residential therapy that focuses on addressing psychological issues that drive addiction are also effective - after all, in most cases, people started using the substances for a reason in the first place, and addressing that reason can help with keeping someone off drugs.

But Strike's right - methadone has other uses and users are all tarred with one brush - to say nothing of the fact that people on methadone programs are there because they want to get clean. Why chastise them?
 

PuckChaser

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I'm wondering where the OP got his information that the CF is starting to have a problem with Oxycotin? Made it sound like Health Services is tossing this stuff out like candy and that we're all hooked.
 

Redeye

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PuckChaser said:
I'm wondering where the OP got his information that the CF is starting to have a problem with Oxycotin? Made it sound like Health Services is tossing this stuff out like candy and that we're all hooked.

I didn't get that reading what he posted. He stated that it's a problem in society in general - and thus, there's some possibility that it impacts the CF... I don't know how someone could read that and belief it inferred anything about CFHS.
 

medicineman

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BadEnoughDude said:
Hi all! Given the increasing rates of opioid addiction throughout society as a whole, I was wondering if I could get some feedback as to how methadone or Suboxone treatment is viewed in the CF. Are methadone/sub patients ostracized and completely peered out or are they accepted into their peer groups on the knowledge that they're trying to get better. Or, am I missing the boat completely here? Does the CF have a policy where if you're on Methadone, you cannot serve until the duration of the treatment has completed?

They'd be placed on a medical category as they require specialized treatment and follow up...if they're not progressing, the release process goes into effect.  That is of course if they're not already on an AR for whatever might have put them there in the first place - like involuntary treatment due to failing drug testing, getting caught snorting or shooting up, etc.

MM
 

Nemo888

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Redeye said:
It replaces one addiction with another one, which in many (but not all, as my cousin found out) cases is safer - it accomplishes harm reduction as well, because it gets the addict away from all the knock-on effects of drug use - petty crime, transmission of bloodborne diseases, and so on.

While Bruce is right that an addict can stop using for a while, weather the storm of being "dopesick", and possibly stay clean, it would appear that that's very rare, in part because of the physiological effects of long term use. Use of opiates over time changes the way the brain's opiate receptors work. And no, recceguy, I'm not a doctor, but suffice it to say I've had a long term interest in pharmacology, addiction, and related topics. It's a product of my own life experiences. I probably should have gone down that career path, but when I was in high school I don't think I realized that.

Are replacement therapies the best way to deal with opiate addicts? I'm not sure - I'm not going to delve into studies to see in detail (I have lots of time to read all sorts of interesting stuff at the moment, but that's not doing it for me), but it seems that way - intensive residential therapy that focuses on addressing psychological issues that drive addiction are also effective - after all, in most cases, people started using the substances for a reason in the first place, and addressing that reason can help with keeping someone off drugs.

But Strike's right - methadone has other uses and users are all tarred with one brush - to say nothing of the fact that people on methadone programs are there because they want to get clean. Why chastise them?

Oxy addiction did not make me commit petty crimes or transmit blood born diseases. I did get the talk about changes to my brain stem from the constant pain. Big deal. Soldier on. I find this 12 step nonsense emasculating and it's based on pseudo science.  Every one who has had a few beers is not and alcoholic in denial. If you are drinking or using  while on duty(and it's not New Years, Christmas, your Birthday, Friday, etc) they should C&P you.
 

Disenchantedsailor

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Nemo, your 100% right on part and way off on part. Recovery is emasculating... really, no... really It's being on crutches emasculating too.  If your manhood is threatened by treatment you best not get injured again.  That said I suspect I know where you are coming from.  I don't really have an addictive personality myself and generally do my best to ask the doc for alternative to mind altering pain killers.  The pain causing brain stem changes, yes absolutely got it tracking, and thank christ someone has the concept of soldiering on, yes you may be in pain for the rest of your life but guess what, endorphins are pain relievers too and come naturally.

Now for Alcohol, it seems society has deemed damn near all those who drink alcoholics,  in fact it is taught on a CF course that and individuals drinking becomes problem drinking when someone else has a problem with it.  I call bullshit, there are certain religions that ban drinking period, my ex wife had a problem with me coming home from the pub drunk 2 or 3 Fridays a year.  does that make a problem drinker I think not.  It's when performance suffers, relationships are replaced by a buzz, and laws are violated, then it is problem drinking and now in the realm of DMCA to determine the mbr's suitability.

Now for the OP,  I believe you have achieved your aim of agitating the defecate. Now for my 2 cents.  Yes OXY is a huge issue in civil population where it was prescribed like candy for years, users get hooked, can't get refills and resort to theft, or buying the "beans" from a dealer.  This is much less likely to happen in the CF for a variety of reasons including the fact that it just isnt that easy to get from our doctors (hell depending on the base ib broken is difficult to obtain) and that its use is so strictly controlled that patient monitoring is relatively simple from a medical and command perspective.  The other dudes (soldiers picking up thier "beans" downtown) when caught, and they will be, will see an AR for illicit drug involvement (it doesn't need to be listed in the CSA to be illicit involvement) and likely release (I caveat that statement with the fact that it has been my experience anything harder than cannibis comes back as release, and everything soft (cannibis, performance enhancers ...) is a 12 month C&P with control testing.
 

mariomike

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<snip>  in fact it is taught on a CF course that and individuals drinking becomes problem drinking when someone else has a problem with it. 

Reminds me of the old saying, "An alcoholic is someone you don't like who drinks as much as you do."  :)
 

Redeye

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Nemo888 said:
Oxy addiction did not make me commit petty crimes or transmit blood born diseases. I did get the talk about changes to my brain stem from the constant pain. Big deal. Soldier on. I find this 12 step nonsense emasculating and it's based on pseudo science.  Every one who has had a few beers is not and alcoholic in denial. If you are drinking or using  while on duty(and it's not New Years, Christmas, your Birthday, Friday, etc) they should C&P you.

There's a big difference between someone who develops a physical addiction to prescribed narcotics and just has to deal with a physical withdrawal. The underlying psychological drivers weren't there. You weren't self-medicated for other issues or anything like that.

However, that's not the opiate addiction problem that the OP (or anyone else) is discussing. "Recreational" oxy and other addicts do commit crimes, do risk transmission of things like HIV and Hep C, etc. Those people are the problem to be dealt with, not those who have a legitimate need for pain medication and are properly medically supervised.
 
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