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Military plane reported to crash in Saskatchewan - 9 Oct 2008

1feral1

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I was at 15 Wg in August.

Thoughts and prayers to their mates and families today.


OWDU
 

Hot Lips

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http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20081010%2fSnowbird_Crash_20081010

RIP  :salute:
Condolences to family and friends...

HL
 

Strike

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Someone once told me that I would know at least a dozen people that have died on domestic soil by 20 yrs.  So far I'm sitting at 7 and I'm 14 years in.  RIP guys.  My thoughts and prayers will always be with those dearly departed.

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings.
Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew.
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

Truer words have never been spoken... :salute:
 

crystalrh

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Great poem, Strike. But I really hope that you don't know a dozen people that die on domestic soil in 20 years.
 

mariomike

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Update.

National Post
7 July, 2010:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/07/07/report-snowbird-crash-caused-by-human-error/
 

Strike

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That whole report and article rubs me the wrong way.

They say Capt Mitchell had no training in low-level flying, formation or otherwise.  Ah, was the man not an instructor?  Chances are he's been both trained and trained others in that aspect.  As well, being the inner left bird, the chances of him flying low-level in formation (even if it might have only been during try-outs) are pretty darned good.

The report recommended giving all pilots sent on photo-chase missions in the future guidance on the risks involved, and to make low-level awareness training a requirement for pilots before setting out.

Well, the first part would entail an addition to the flight brief, which should already be covered in "Other briefing points."  As for LL flight training, pretty sure that this training is made available at both the basic (500') and advanced (250') courses in MJ.  A refresher would be good prior to conducting any major formation training at those levels but beyond that seems a little too much.

Maybe I'm just having a bad day.  Who knows.
 

SupersonicMax

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Strike,

I think the report says they should get LLAT in a photo-chase role.  There is a HUGE difference between flying low by yourself, flying low with an other aircraft and flying low taking pictures of other aircraft.
 

Strike

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SupersonicMax said:
Strike,

I think the report says they should get LLAT in a photo-chase role.  There is a HUGE difference between flying low by yourself, flying low with an other aircraft and flying low taking pictures of other aircraft.

Really?  I never knew!  ::)

I have done all three, regularly.  Training was provided for the first two and the only difference between two and three was an addition in the brief.  To have a specific "course" on how to fly as a chase plane would be like having a specific course for tac-hel to learn how to do static rappel.  Yes, we have the qualification, but to get it entails briefing the flight, including possible emergencies specific to that situation and then going out and flying it.  If the big heads in 2 CAD suddenly decide to have a full qualification series/course for this one type of flying (chase plane) IMO would be a waste of time.  I hate to say it, but sometimes accidents happen and no amount of pre-briefing and preparation will prevent it.
 

Sf2

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I didn't find any problems with the report..

It did mention that the pilot, on several occasions, had difficulty with both altitude awareness, and energy management during rejoins.  Judging from the photo taken from the chase plane moments before the crash and the flight profile at the moment of the crash, its pretty clear what happened.

Fixation and channelized attention on the formation during a low altitude, overly dynamic rejoin.

Its a shame, but the analysis is spot on.
 

Good2Golf

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SF2 said:
I didn't find any problems with the report..

It did mention that the pilot, on several occasions, had difficulty with both altitude awareness, and energy management during rejoins.  Judging from the photo taken from the chase plane moments before the crash and the flight profile at the moment of the crash, its pretty clear what happened.

Fixation and channelized attention on the formation during a low altitude, overly dynamic rejoin.

Its a shame, but the analysis is spot on.

Concur.

The low-level awareness training that the report specifically mentions, and for which Max reinforces the importance of that point, might have also brought to light the issue of the forced "remain to right of form" given by the form lead during the briefing, rather than physically during the flight.  The combination of the rolling-to-right low level manoeuvre with the effect of the terrain proximity as the photo bird dropped even lower to maintain the formation perspective for the photographer was something that could more than likely have been foreseen or at least queried during the pre-flight briefing.

Strike, in support of Max's comments, don't forget, there is a notable difference between low-level formation in free-cruise like we do, and low-level formation essentially parade-formation like the incident formation was traveling in.  As well, there's the NFP in our world to bring the FP's attention to any terrain that may endanger the intended flight path...the photographer was neither trained for, nor tasked to provide qualified-aircrew formal duties for such lookout, especially when concentrating on getting that 'good shot'.  That's what the recommendations of the report are addressing.

Zwei meir pfenning...
G2G
 
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