MP Unit Re-Org

[garb811]

SUB: ORGANIZATION MESSAGE - MILITARY POLICE UNITS

PAGE 2 RCCPJAW4005 UNCLAS
1. THE MND HAS AUTHORIZED THE DISBANDMENT OF THE FOLLOWING UNITS AS
UNITS OF THE CANADIAN FORCES:
A. 1 MILITARY POLICE PLATOON DEPT ID 2122 MOO 2006057
B. 2 MILITARY POLICE PLATOON DEPT ID 2123 MOO 2006058
C. 5 MILITARY POLICE PLATOON DEPT ID 2124 MOO 2006059 AND
D. 2 MILITARY POLICE COMPANY DEPT ID 6321 MOO 2006060
2. THE MND HAS AUTHORIZED THE ORGANIZATION OF THE FOLLOWING AS UNITS
OF THE CANADIAN FORCES EMBODIED IN THE REGULAR FORCE:
A. 1 MILITARY POLICE UNIT DEPT ID 6476 ALLOCATED TO 1 AREA SUPPORT
GROUP
B. 2 MILITARY POLICE UNIT DEPT ID 6477 ALLOCATED TO 2 AREA SUPPORT
GROUP
C. 3 MILITARY POLICE UNIT DEPT ID 6478 ALLOCATED TO LAND FORCE
ATLANTIC AREA AND
D. 5 MILITARY POLICE UNIT DEPT ID 6479 ALLOCATED TO 5 AREA SUPPORT
GROUP
3. CHANGES ARE EFFECTIVE ON RECEIPT. LFC STAFF SHALL SUBMIT DRAFT
ROLES FOR THE NEW UNITS TO DDSM 2 FOR CFOO PROMULGATION.
4. THIS ORDER IS ISSUED ON BEHALF OF THE CHIEF OF THE DEFENCE STAFF
END OF ENGLISH TEXT/DEBUT DU TEXTE FRANCAIS

This will affect all Land Force MPs, including the Reserves, as each respective MP Unit will assume Command of all Land Force MP resources in its Area with the Field Platoons being OPCON back to their Brigades.

This is truly a sad day in my book.  For what it's worth, not that the CFPM ever seems to listen to my advice, I think this yet another step in the wrong direction by the Branch. 

 

[Screw]

Hey MP,

I dont really see a difference. Although Ive never been any good at reading this stuff. What is your objection?

Screw

 

[Poppa]

This is truly a sad day in my book.  For what it's worth, not that the CFPM ever seems to listen to my advice, I think this yet another step in the wrong direction by the Branch. 

Funny, I (and some others) have been saying this all along. BTW the CFPM dosen't listen to me either.

 

[George Wallace]

Looks a little like there is something in the pipes about forming 3 Bde or 3 CMBG.

 

[Mortar guy]

Looks a little like there is something in the pipes about forming 3 Bde or 3 CMBG.

Why do you say that? LFAA has had 3 ASG for a while so maybe the number is related to that rather than to some new Bde.

MG

 

[George Wallace]

For the same reason that 3 ASG has shown up in the organization lists.  Slowly we are recreating a Bde org.  Sort of streamlines things when an official announcement comes down the tubes.  No confusion who will be members.  Just a logical step.  Perhaps the Cdn Gds are coming back..... ;D

Perhaps, if we start to see the recreation/reorg/renaming of some other Units to become 3 Svc Bn or 3 CS Bn and 3 GS Bn, 3 CER, 3 Fd Amb, 3 HQ & Sigs, 3 RCHA, etc. in Gagetown, the obvious will happen.

 

[dapaterson]

George:

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one...

and re: The MPs: These changes will present a challenge, particularly in creating a single unit with dispersed elemetns, some Regular Force and some Reserve.  I hope that the recent successes in growing MPs within the Reserve will not be lost as the new units attempt to find thier footing.

 

[PQLUR]

Would 30 MP Coy, in Halifax (Lower Sackville) still be 30 MP Coy?

 

[MPSHIELD]

Would 30 MP Coy, in Halifax (Lower Sackville) still be 30 MP Coy?

Unless they decide to change the number designation. My unit is 15 MP Coy which falls under 1 ASG. With this new MP formations (effect i guess now), It will be a sub unit. I will now belong to 12 of 15 of 1 MPU (12 PL 15 COY of 1 MPU). My understanding is that our Coy is keeping our number and that they are keeping 30 MP Coy's number as Coy designator but the "new unit" will be 3 MPU. In other words, when someone within 30 MP Coy is asked what unit they are with, they will now respond with 3 MP unit. The sub unit will be 30 MP Coy. Hope that make sense- it is way to late right now.

Edit: With to Will

 

[dapaterson]

TACMP - that's exactly the case.  15 MP and 30 MP were not "units" in the legal sense of the word; they lacked ministerial organizational orders (MOOs) and CFOOs.  Only 2 MP Coy in LFCA was a unit in the Reserve Force (legally speaking).

Now Reserve MPs are part of the MP Units, which are vested in the Regular Force.  Which leads to a number of interesting implications in terms of the applicability of the Code of Service Discipline, among other issues...

 

[MPSHIELD]

TACMP - that's exactly the case.  15 MP and 30 MP were not "units" in the legal sense of the word; they lacked ministerial organizational orders (MOOs) and CFOOs.  Only 2 MP Coy in LFCA was a unit in the Reserve Force (legally speaking).

Now Reserve MPs are part of the MP Units, which are vested in the Regular Force.  Which leads to a number of interesting implications in terms of the applicability of the Code of Service Discipline, among other issues...

dapaterson -yes you are correct, 15 and 30 were technically non existant. 2 MP Coy (Res Field) was the only "real reserve field Company" or "legal" unit. Despite having a name and a flag, on paper, we don't really exist. Even the archives at NDHQ might not mention our unit cause we did not have a UIC, CFOO etc. We have been "borrowing" UIC's etc. We have been waiting for our CFOO to get signed.

It will be very interesting to see what the future holds.

 

[garb811]

Hey MP,

I dont really see a difference. Although Ive never been any good at reading this stuff. What is your objection?

Screw

Well, the short answer, put mildly, is the majority of the MP Branch treats the field with an attitude of beneficial indifference for the Reg Force Pls and one of outright neglect and disdain with regard to the Militia.  The majority of the Branch isn't interested in this for any reason other than bringing all MP under the direct Command and Control of the Branch, it's a people and power grab.

In the past, the Pls greatly benefited by being a full fledged member of the Bde family, although small in size and with a Capt as the CO, the Pl was a Unit and the CO was a CO.  Now, instead of a CO of a Bde Unit at the table, it is going to be an OC of an Attached Unit, hardly the same thing.  The Pls will also find that it they are no longer included in many of the activities and conferences they formerly benefited from (ie.  No reason to have the Pls attend the Bde Adjt conferences anymore yet that is where a huge amount of information was passed and you can bet the equivalent info (and support) won’t be flowing from MPU HQ).  Other losses are direct control over tasks, individual training and access to the Career Manager to name a few of the more significant ones.

The big winner in this is going to be the APM shop (now MPU HQ), which is sure to see yet another increase in numbers for no real reason, much as happened when the G MP Coys stood up.  The Pls aren't gaining anything out of this other than a layer of HQ which will not even be remotely interested in the field as the vast majority of their day to day issues are going to be related to Garrison policing; its input into Pl life is mainly going to be Administrative burden.  If you get the wrong personalities posted into the MPU, life is going to become very interesting indeed for the Pl...

My forecast (and I pray that I'm wrong but since it was continually tried before the merge I'm not really hopeful) is that it won't be long before the MP Pls become dumping grounds and "reserve" Pls for the Guardhouses of the respective Garrisons.  It’s not like the Pls have anything to do while in Garrison but PT, vehicle maintenance and mopping floors so the Guardhouse might as well benefit from all those idle bodies to send folks on course and leave...

As for the prognosis of how this is going to impact the Militia MP, I'll leave that to Poppa, should he feel up to it.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Do  you really still call them Militia MPs?

Most everyone else is Reserve's now.  Army Reserve, Naval Reserve, AF Reserve.  Primary Reserve.  Supplementary Reserve...

Militia to me is those anti-government folks that hid out in the woods down in the US with BDUs on and stuff like that...

I am not sure, other than say, loosing the title of CO for the MPO, how this is necessarily a bad thing.  I am not an MP, so the obvious stuff doesn't jump out at me, but it seems like the MPO will be acting much a a Support Arms commander then?

 

[garb811]

Do  you really still call them Militia MPs?

Most everyone else is Reserve's now.  Army Reserve, Naval Reserve, AF Reserve.  Primary Reserve.  Supplementary Reserve...

The Branch?  No.  Me? Yep.  >

 

[Poppa]

Do  you really still call them Militia MPs?

The Branch?  No.  Me? Yep.  >

Well, to be honest..most of the branch does as well.
I'll post my objections later from a mil....sorry PRes POV

 

[George Wallace]

Colloquialisms will always be there.  Long used terms are often used, although there are newer terms.  Why are we still using the term RcEME when we talk about Gun Plumbers', Veh Techs, Welders, etc.?   

 

[garb811]

Agreed, particularly when the term "Militia" has a long and honourable history in Canada, notwithstanding the wingnuts south of the border

Using Militia MP is particularly useful for me on here because there are very distinct differences between our Air Reserve MP and the vast majority of our Army Reserve MP and how we train and employ them.  It’s much faster for me to type "Militia" than "Army Primary Reserve" when focusing on that particular element of our Branch; call me a lazy traditionalist.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Ahh.  Ok, that makes sense now.

;D

 

[Poppa]

I'll try now and expand a bit on what MP00161 was saying from our point of view. Although, when the last Army PM broached this subject and people far smarter than me were uncomfortable we were told that we weren't team players and if you don't want to be a part of it then quit.

Big thing is succession. We are no longer in command of our own destiny. There is very little progression. For example I cannot be as a reservist the CO of my unit. Full Stop. This is due to the fact that I am not specially appointed under 156 of the NDA. Now some on this site may say "big deal, I won't be the CO of my unit." However, the chance is there regardless of how small every officer cadet has a chance to be the CO. My command will top out at the Coy level. The issue of a SM still needs to be worked out and there is the possibility of a reserve MWO being the Sergeants Major but that will come down the pipe.

Budget. As a reserve MP Coy we had our own budget and we were responsible for paying for O&M, courses etc... just like every other unit out there. Now all monies are pooled into this MP Unit (which let's be honest is a sneaky way of calling us a MP battalion). Will we have enough for exercises, trg, etc...etc...? Or will some cash emergency at a local guardhouse put the kibosh on a ex being planned? I doubt it I hope not but the possibility is there.

We do different jobs..our roles are different. They just are. I'm not going to spout off about us putting the M into MP or the Regs being little m big P. We're different. Different mind set and unless our role is clarified there will be friction. I don't want us to become an auxiliary police force. That's not why I joined the Army. What it comes down to is this we are MP soldiers and we need to train as such and we need a chain of command committed to that end.

Now all is not doom and gloom. Some of the pluses are now I have more resources to draw on. Like the MP variant G-Wagons, guns..etc...More hockey players for the Brockville Tournament.

Regardless of my misgivings, I'm an Army Officer and will carry on to the best of my abilities all the while keeping my soldiers best interest at heart.

Hopefully, I've shed some light on this. Any specific questions just ask.

I'll actually sign my name to this
Jason Croswell

 

[CombatMP265]

Big thing is succession. We are no longer in command of our own destiny. There is very little progression. For example I cannot be as a reservist the CO of my unit. Full Stop. This is due to the fact that I am not specially appointed under 156 of the NDA. Now some on this site may say "big deal, I won't be the CO of my unit." However, the chance is there regardless of how small every officer cadet has a chance to be the CO. My command will top out at the Coy level. The issue of a SM still needs to be worked out and there is the possibility of a reserve MWO being the Sergeants Major but that will come down the pipe.

The idea is that the Area Provost Marshall will be the CO. Namely, all area MP's fall under the same boss, just like the Regular Force. As for reserve OCdts, they can aspire to be OC's. Sorry to say but reserve training is very ill equipped to train a CO for a "MP Battalion".

Budget. As a reserve MP Coy we had our own budget and we were responsible for paying for O&M, courses etc... just like every other unit out there. Now all monies are pooled into this MP Unit (which let's be honest is a sneaky way of calling us a MP battalion). Will we have enough for exercises, trg, etc...etc...? Or will some cash emergency at a local guardhouse put the kibosh on a ex being planned? I doubt it I hope not but the possibility is there.

Way off, depending on your funding model and your conditions of unit service etc. the reserve training funding budget can only increase if your using just the IBTS budget 37.5 days/year. If anything, your gaining experienced policing instructors and "pooled" equipment/material resources/OJT opportunities.

We do different jobs..our roles are different. They just are. I'm not going to spout off about us putting the M into MP or the Regs being little m big P. We're different. Different mind set and unless our role is clarified there will be friction. I don't want us to become an auxiliary police force. That's not why I joined the Army. What it comes down to is this we are MP soldiers and we need to train as such and we need a chain of command committed to that end.

Maybe instead of looking as it as a negative, lets look at it as a positive. Lets look at the facts: Most Reg Force MP's join because they wanna be cops (hence all the releases when lateral transfers are accepted), most young reservists join because they eventually want to be cops. So as a military member I see it as this. I train them as a functional soldier capable of doing field skills while introducing them to basic military policing skills. Result? Above average recruit for Regular Force MP selection that benefits the service the most.

Now all is not doom and gloom. Some of the pluses are now I have more resources to draw on. Like the MP variant G-Wagons, guns..etc...More hockey players for the Brockville Tournament.

G-Wagon/Nyala Training is available to reservists, its a matter of funding from your CO to send people to train.

Regardless of my misgivings, I'm an Army Officer and will carry on to the best of my abilities all the while keeping my soldiers best interest at heart.

Hopefully, I've shed some light on this. Any specific questions just ask.

I'll actually sign my name to this
Jason Croswell