• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Notice to Aboriginal Voters: Globe and Mail Confirms Thomas Flanagan still a

UberCree

Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
This is circulating around Niche country.  I would love to see Harper publicly distance himself from Flanagan.  IMO he is the "scary hidden agenda" personified.




Notice to Aboriginal Voters: Globe and Mail Confirms Thomas Flanagan still a
part of Stephen Harper's "Inner Circle"

Ottawa - On January 7, 2006, the Globe and Mail reaffirmed the worst fears
of Aboriginal peoples across the country.  In an in-depth article on the
Conservative Party campaign, How Harper fashioned his lead, it was confirmed
that Stephen Harper "still relies on individuals such as his former
political science professor at the University of Calgary, Tom Flanagan."

Mr. Flanagan is a part of "a small inner circle" that influences Mr. Harper
and operates behind the scenes in the Conservative Party.  Mr. Flanagan, who
was born and raised in the United States, has spent most of his career
arguing against the rights and self-government aspirations of Aboriginal
peoples in Canada.  Mr. Flanagan has published numerous articles and a book
entitled First Nations? Second Thoughts to support his proposition that
Aboriginal peoples should be assimilated.

"All Aboriginal peoples need to be concerned that Mr. Flanagan is still in a
position of great influence in the Conservative Party.  Jim Prentice and
other Conservatives have been telling Aboriginal people not to worry and
that Mr. Flanagan is no longer in a position of power.  This recent article
demonstrates that those claims are untrue.  Aboriginal peoples need to
beware of what is lurking in the shadows of the Conservative Party," said
Hank Rowlinson, Co-President of the Liberal Party's Aboriginal Peoples
Commission.

Mr. Flanagan was the Co-chair of the movement that brought Harper back into
to federal politics, during the Stockwell Day leadership review in 2001. He
later went on to be Harper's Chief of Staff."

In the last federal election, the leadership of the Assembly of First
Nations, Métis National Council and Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami collectively
asked Mr. Harper to distance himself from the "antiquated, ill-informed,
regressive and offensive writings of Mr. Flanagan in articles and books such
as First Nations?, Second Thoughts."  Mr. Harper dismissed the question as
solely "partisan" in nature and said that if he won he would be "a forgiving
lot" towards First Nation, Inuit and Métis peoples.  Since that time, Mr.
Harper has never publicly distanced himself from the positions and writing
of his ally and mentor, Thomas Flanagan.

While Mr. Harper will not distance himself from a man who wants to
assimilate Aboriginal peoples, the Conservative Party has distanced itself
from the historic $5.1 billion agreement reached between Prime Minister
Martin, all Premiers and Aboriginal leadership at the First Ministers
Meeting on Aboriginal Issues held in Kelowna in November 2005.

Jim Prentice, the Conservative Party's critic for Aboriginal Affairs has
stated that the Conservatives are only willing to "examine those figures in
an overall budget context."  Conservative Finance Critic Monte Solberg
confirmed this on January 9, saying "we aren't going to accept the Liberal
approach.  We think it's flawed."

Given these statements, it is clear a Conservative Party would not follow
through on the commitments made to Aboriginal peoples at the First Ministers
Meeting on Aboriginal Issues.

The Aboriginal Peoples Commission is also calling on other minority groups
to recognize that the influence of Thomas Flanagan in the Conservative Party
also puts their rights and interests at stake.

"If, as the Conservative Party would have it, governments can ignore the
constitutional rights of Aboriginal people today, they might equally be able
to ignore the constitutional rights of others tomorrow. You have an interest
in seeing to it that governments recognize, respect, and protect the rights
of Aboriginal peoples, for you may be in the same position tomorrow,"
concluded Hank Rowlinson, Co-President of the Aboriginal Peoples Commission.

What Stephen Harper's "Inside Circle" Says About Aboriginal Peoples

Aboriginal Peoples are Immigrants

"Europeans are, in effect, a new immigrant wave, taking control of land just
as earlier aboriginal settlers did.  To differentiate the rights of earlier
and later immigrants is a form of racism." - Thomas Flanagan, Conservative
Party Insider

Aboriginal Culture is Inferior and Primitive

"European Civilization was several thousand years more advanced than the
aboriginal cultures of North America, both in technology and social
organization." - Thomas Flanagan, Conservative Party Insider

Colonization of Aboriginal Peoples was Inevitable and Justifiable

"Owing to this tremendous gap in civilization, the European colonization of
North America was inevitable and, if we accept the philosophical analysis of
John Locke and Emer de Vattel, justifiable." - Thomas Flanagan, Conservative
Party Insider

Aboriginal Peoples are Incapable of Governing Themselves

"Sovereignty is an attribute of statehood, and aboriginal peoples in Canada
had not arrived at the state level of political organization prior to
contact with Europeans." - Thomas Flanagan, Conservative Party Insider

"Aboriginal government is fraught with difficulties stemming from small
size, an overly ambitious agenda, and dependence on transfer payments." -
Thomas Flanagan, Conservative Party Insider

"In practice, aboriginal government produces wasteful, destructive,
familistic factionalism." - Thomas Flanagan, Conservative Party Insider

Aboriginal Peoples Must Assimilate

"Perhaps the damage to Canada would be tolerable if it meant that aboriginal
peoples would escape from the social pathologies in which they are mired to
become prosperous, self-supporting citizens" - Thomas Flanagan, Conservative
Party Insider

"Prosperity and self-sufficiency in the modern economy require a willingness
to integrate into the economy, which means, among other things, a
willingness to move to where jobs and investment opportunities exist." -
Thomas Flanagan, Conservative Party Insider

"Current public policy... is flooding reserves with money, enticing people
back, enticing people to stay and weakening their resolve to participate in
Canadian society." - Thomas Flanagan, Conservative Party Insider

Aboriginal Rights and Treaties Should Be Ignored

"The treaties mean what they say.  Their reinterpretation... has the
potential to be both expensive and mischievous for the economies of all
provinces in which treaties have been signed." - Thomas Flanagan,
Conservative Party Insider

"Contemporary judicial attempts to redefine aboriginal rights are producing
little but uncertainty.  Recent Supreme Court of Canada decisions define
aboriginal title in a way that will make its use impossible in a modern
economy." - Thomas Flanagan, Conservative Party Insider

Hank Rowlinson
Co-President
Aboriginal Peoples Commission
Ph: 613-764-1077
Cell: 613-858-4809
 

Fishbone Jones

Army.ca Myth
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
844
Points
1,060
Globe & Mail = Fiberals. Story = Cheap Lieberal scare tactics and fear mongering. They see their empire withering away, and are willing to do anything to salvage it.
 

North Star

Member
Reaction score
5
Points
230
People forget that Jean Chretien himself once put forward a plan to abolish the Reserve system and set about "assimilating" aboriginal peoples into "mainstream" Canada. The idea actually evolved from Trudeau's opinions regarding French Canada and how a policy of isolation would only weaken it over time.

I wouldn't worry. No government in their right mind would seek to make massive changes to the status quo wrt Indian Affairs, especially Conservatives absolutely terrified as being labelled as bigots. It's too bad, as we really do need a frank discussion on native issues if we're going to make things any better.
 

BKells

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
North Star said:
People forget that Jean Chretien himself once put forward a plan to abolish the Reserve system and set about "assimilating" aboriginal peoples into "mainstream" Canada. The idea actually evolved from Trudeau's opinions regarding French Canada and how a policy of isolation would only weaken it over time.

I wouldn't worry. No government in their right mind would seek to make massive changes to the status quo wrt Indian Affairs, especially Conservatives absolutely terrified as being labelled as bigots. It's too bad, as we really do need a frank discussion on native issues if we're going to make things any better.

Can you substantiate this claim against Mr. Chretien?
 

FSTO

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,248
Points
1,090
As a person who sees everyday the destructive result of the current reserve system, I wish for the day that aboriginals are fully functioning and productive members of today's society.

As to one of the quotes from Flannigan

"Aboriginal Peoples Must Assimilate

"Perhaps the damage to Canada would be tolerable if it meant that aboriginal
peoples would escape from the social pathologies in which they are mired to
become prosperous, self-supporting citizens" - Thomas Flanagan, Conservative
Party Insider

"Prosperity and self-sufficiency in the modern economy require a willingness
to integrate into the economy, which means, among other things, a
willingness to move to where jobs and investment opportunities exist." -
Thomas Flanagan, Conservative Party Insider"


I had to move away from where I was born and raised to move ahead, people throughout the world move to get themselves a better life. They also have to be able to adjust (or assimilate) to fit in with the society they have moved to. Thats just the way it is.

Honestly what would you rather have; no job, mold infested house, utter failure of the social structure, but still living with your buddies? Or moving away, working, feeling like you are contributing to society, home to live in.

I would like nothing better to live back on the farm raising cattle and living the cowboy life. Not going to happen, I had to go somewhere else to live and thrive. That's just the way it is.
 

UberCree

Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
BKells said:
Can you substantiate this claim against Mr. Chretien?

Mr. Chretien was the Minister of Indian Affairs when the Liberals introduced the "White Paper".  The White Paper was the rallying poont that got the Aboriginal political organizations of today started.  Prior to that there was not a strong political voice.

 

North Star

Member
Reaction score
5
Points
230
Thanks. Yes, the 1969 White Paper. Pretty much peeved everyone off.

http://mediasphere.onf.ca/E/history/content/aboriginal_policy.epl
 

Glorified Ape

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
We don't make efforts to "assimilate" anyone - why should natives be different? Whether you agree with it or not, our policy is multiculturalism, not assimilation. This is Canada, not the US. It's hardly suprising it came from Flanagan.
 

a_majoor

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
30
Points
560
Too bad the common reaction is to bash Mr Flanagan rather than take a cold hard look at what he is saying. We have seen Kasechewan in the news only two months ago as an example of where the reserve system and "Native self government" can go. Pouring ever more money into bands which have little or no transparency or accountability for their spending hasn't done much for people caught in the system.

Step back, look at the situation we have today and ask if this is what we really want? If the answer is "no", then what should we do?
 

Glorified Ape

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
a_majoor said:
Too bad the common reaction is to bash Mr Flanagan rather than take a cold hard look at what he is saying. We have seen Kasechewan in the news only two months ago as an example of where the reserve system and "Native self government" can go. Pouring ever more money into bands which have little or no transparency or accountability for their spending hasn't done much for people caught in the system.

Step back, look at the situation we have today and ask if this is what we really want? If the answer is "no", then what should we do?

I agree that a different approach needs to be taken to the reserves problem and funding, but espousing assimilation is ridiculous. I wonder when Harper's going to put Pat Robertson on staff.
 

UberCree

Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Arguing for assimilation is about as logical as argueing for "non-violence" and doing away with the military.  Sure you (and the non-violence lefties) may think its a good idea, but you are forgetting the reality of Canada and our history.  The reality is that it was tried in the past with Residential Schools, laws prohibiting ceremonies, language etc. and it cause the problems we are seeing today. 
In the same regard, total sovereignty could never work either.
I am a believer in the "Citizen Plus" idea.

 

TCBF

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Well, GA, I think by now the 8,000 people on this site prob have a good idea how you will (and how I just did) vote, but, as far as First Nations (FN) issues go, not a lot of guts and glory on either side.

The reservations were never expected to be economically self sufficient in an industrial 20th century context.  If we expanded some reserves to include large tracts of resource bearing lands - even if that was possible - and then had the FN tax their own people to provide the modern services (health, welfare) that old treaties never envisioned, that might work.  It would promote maturity, ownership and responsibility. But, Whitey has inadvertently taught them how to run corrupt, ineffective and counter-productive local governments.  They appear to have  learned this too well - though there are well run reserves, we don't here the success stories.

The concept of trying to impose traditional lifestyles on socially challenged "Bantustans" has proved a no go.  If someone was going to enforce a historic lifestyle on the reserves - their only logical reason for existence -  that would mean no Whitey booze, no Whitey drugs, no Whitey trucks, etc.  If traditional 24/7/365 sustenance hunting means using Whitey quads and Winchesters, then bring me along too, because we are all the descendants of successful hunters (hint: in the olden days, unsuccessful hunters and their progeny starved and froze to death).  But you know what?  Nobody wants to return to 60% casualties after a hard winter anyway, so lets invite them all into our cities. Does this mean assimilation? Economically YES, and it's about time.  But, not socially, unless you consider the Scots, Irish, Germans, Hindus, Jews and every other group holding identity beliefs, customs, dances and festivals and so on assimilated.

So, what now?  Enraged that treaties hundreds of years old are being forced to provide modern services (not even dreamt of back then) to a non-tax paying people, Whitey is using the current crop of FN leaders as tools to keep the FN people in a pickled state of enslavement on the 'Bantustans' while spreading the billions of INAC dollars among themselves, their cronies ('communication consultants' and the like) and the chosen FN gang-bosses.

Not a pretty picture.  If someone doesn't step up to the plate and admit that the current crop of FN and white leaders are committing slow cultural genocide by killing the FNs with kindness, the future is bleak.

The way we are structured now, it is unlikely a non-FN would risk all his or her political career for this.  Cretien saw the future way back when, but was dissueded by the powers that be from taking effective action.  And how many have died needlessly since then? The solution will have to come from within the FNs ranks, and many of their best educated and most capable leaders don't want to get into FN politics.  (Another attitude they learned from us - why do they copy our flaws?).

Sucks, don't it?

Please explain the 'Citizen Plus' idea.  Or any other idea that might work.  As I say, any solution will have to come from the FNs themselves.  The rest of us can't even save our OWN culture right now.

Tom

 

a_majoor

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
30
Points
560
UberCree can you elaborate on this "Citizen Plus" idea? (I have to admit I always thought that term was reserved for Service members).

Links, books and articles, websites or blogs are all welcome.
 

Glorified Ape

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
UberCree said:
Arguing for assimilation is about as logical as argueing for "non-violence" and doing away with the military.  Sure you (and the non-violence lefties) may think its a good idea, but you are forgetting the reality of Canada and our history.  The reality is that it was tried in the past with Residential Schools, laws prohibiting ceremonies, language etc. and it cause the problems we are seeing today. 
In the same regard, total sovereignty could never work either.
I am a believer in the "Citizen Plus" idea.

What? I was arguing against assimilation, as I would suspect most leftists would, as it was they who thought up and advanced the whole "multiculturalism" ideal.  ???

TCBF said:
Well, GA, I think by now the 8,000 people on this site prob have a good idea how you will (and how I just did) vote, but, as far as First Nations (FN) issues go, not a lot of guts and glory on either side.

The reservations were never expected to be economically self sufficient in an industrial 20th century context.  If we expanded some reserves to include large tracts of resource bearing lands - even if that was possible - and then had the FN tax their own people to provide the modern services (health, welfare) that old treaties never envisioned, that might work.  It would promote maturity, ownership and responsibility. But, Whitey has inadvertently taught them how to run corrupt, ineffective and counter-productive local governments.  They appear to have  learned this too well - though there are well run reserves, we don't here the success stories.

The concept of trying to impose traditional lifestyles on socially challenged "Bantustans" has proved a no go.  If someone was going to enforce a historic lifestyle on the reserves - their only logical reason for existence -  that would mean no Whitey booze, no Whitey drugs, no Whitey trucks, etc.  If traditional 24/7/365 sustenance hunting means using Whitey quads and Winchesters, then bring me along too, because we are all the descendants of successful hunters (hint: in the olden days, unsuccessful hunters and their progeny starved and froze to death).  But you know what?  Nobody wants to return to 60% casualties after a hard winter anyway, so lets invite them all into our cities. Does this mean assimilation? Economically YES, and it's about time.  But, not socially, unless you consider the Scots, Irish, Germans, Hindus, Jews and every other group holding identity beliefs, customs, dances and festivals and so on assimilated.

So, what now?  Enraged that treaties hundreds of years old are being forced to provide modern services (not even dreamt of back then) to a non-tax paying people, Whitey is using the current crop of FN leaders as tools to keep the FN people in a pickled state of enslavement on the 'Bantustans' while spreading the billions of INAC dollars among themselves, their cronies ('communication consultants' and the like) and the chosen FN gang-bosses.

Not a pretty picture.  If someone doesn't step up to the plate and admit that the current crop of FN and white leaders are committing slow cultural genocide by killing the FNs with kindness, the future is bleak.

The way we are structured now, it is unlikely a non-FN would risk all his or her political career for this.  Cretien saw the future way back when, but was dissueded by the powers that be from taking effective action.  And how many have died needlessly since then? The solution will have to come from within the FNs ranks, and many of their best educated and most capable leaders don't want to get into FN politics.  (Another attitude they learned from us - why do they copy our flaws?).

Sucks, don't it?

Please explain the 'Citizen Plus' idea.  Or any other idea that might work.  As I say, any solution will have to come from the FNs themselves.  The rest of us can't even save our OWN culture right now.

Tom

As I said, I agree that the reserve system and the alienation it produces needs to be examined and revised (if not gotten rid of at some point). I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue against developing a better system for the economic involvement of First Nations peoples but when one speaks of "assimilation" one isn't speaking of offering involvement, one's speaking of achieving "sameness". As Ubercree pointed out, that's been tried in the past through very abhorrent measures and it did nothing but screw things up worse.

I can't see an outright abolition of the reserve system, but a gradual weaning off of it. I believe, under the current system, that the system currently provides DISincentive to leaving the reserve - perhaps a system which advantaged those that left the reserve would be helpful as I'm unaware of any that exists today.

As for the Citizen + idea, I'm as mystified as you are since it was UberCree that brought it up.

Piper said:
Citizen plus?

So you get free education up to and including post-secondary, free health care, your own land, pay no taxes, your own self gov't and get to be a citizen of Canada when it suits you and a 'native citizen' when being a Canadian citizen does not suit you (like when you have to pay taxes, your own schooling etc). Great idea. Not.

Either you are a citizen of Canada like everyone else, or you aren't. You can't have it both ways. If you want to live on a reserve, fine. Then your reserve and its chief are responsible for everything; education, health care, everything. No gov't funding, because you are no longer a citizen, right?

I don't get any special treatment because I'm white, why should someone else get it because they are Native.

No, you don't, but your people's history in Canada isn't what the Native history in Canada has been, is it?
 

UberCree

Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
a_majoor said:
UberCree can you elaborate on this "Citizen Plus" idea? (I have to admit I always thought that term was reserved for Service members).

Links, books and articles, websites or blogs are all welcome.

I first heard the term through the below book but I believe harold Cardinal was the first to use it his response to the White Paper, the Red Paper.  
Cairns, Alan C. Citizens Plus: Aboriginal Peoples and the Canadian State. Vancouver and Toronto: University of British Columbia Press, 2000. viii + 280 pages.
http://www.nationalismproject.org/books/bookrevs/cairns.html

I liked Cairns approach because he takes a moderate stance on issues that are loaded with emotion and ignorance (see Piper post for example), on both sides.  Native advocates argueing for sovereignty and the ''Two Row wampum'' on one hand (complete independance from Canada) and those argueing for total assimilation of Aboriginal people on the other (Like Fanagan).  'Citizen plus' I would describe as both encouraging a collective nationalist Canadian citizenship amongst Native and non-Native people, while also respecting the fact that Canada was founded and established through a treaty process that cannot be simply tossed out at a whim.  
The 'Plus' is the catch for most opposition my spidey senses are detecting.  I will not agree with anyone that thinks that the Elders that signed the treaties were ignorant or duped.  I believe they did a better job in guaranteeing our long term survival than our leadership could today.  

Below is a quote from Book:
http://www.ubcpress.ca/books/pdf/chapters/citizens/
''My basic thesis is that the debate needs to be reformulated, that our language and our arguments are deficient, from what I consider to be a central concern. What kind of country-wide Canadian political community are we aiming for? A viable constitutional vision, I argue, must address two facts: Aboriginal peoples and other Canadians differ from each other; our differences are not total. There is much overlap -- and we share a common space. Are our future constitutional arrangements going to foster some version of common belonging so that we will feel responsible for each other, and will be eager to engage in some common enterprises, as well as accommodate our differences? ''
 


Also, as my father says, ''They (refering to non-Aboriginal people) are the ones with Treaty rights.  They are the treaty people.  Look at all that we gave them.''  In that regard Soldiers and Aboriginal peoples are not dissimliar.  We have both sacrificed something for the greater good.

I hope that helps.  Without frank tough discussions we will never come close to solutions for frank and tough problems.  Mind you an educated discussion is always more productive.









 

UberCree

Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Glorified Ape said:
What? I was arguing against assimilation, as I would suspect most leftists would, as it was they who thought up and advanced the whole "multiculturalism" ideal.  ???

I wasn't refering to you sorry.

 

TCBF

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Interesting links, but what is the practical aplication? 

Tom
 

Bruce Monkhouse

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Reaction score
2,140
Points
1,260
Glorified Ape.
I didn't realize that you were so RACIST............quote, No, you don't, but your people's history in Canada isn't what the Native history in Canada has been, is it? quote.

Therefore by your own argument I, as a 5th generation Canadian family I should be entitled to more than those disgraceful 2nd generation Canadians.......no? ;)

EDITED TO ADD SMILEY, IT "SOUNDED"TO SERIOUS WITHOUT IT
 

Glorified Ape

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Glorified Ape.
I didn't realize that you were so RACIST............quote, No, you don't, but your people's history in Canada isn't what the Native history in Canada has been, is it? quote.

Therefore by your own argument I, as a 5th generation Canadian family I should be entitled to more than those disgraceful 2nd generation Canadians.......no? ;)

EDITED TO ADD SMILEY, IT "SOUNDED"TO SERIOUS WITHOUT IT

Har de har har... You know what I meant - I was referring to the Native history of being mistreated, not the length of their stay (though their being here first does hold some implications, imo).
 

Bruce Monkhouse

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Reaction score
2,140
Points
1,260
Actually no I don't [and have never] followed that arguement. Who are you ,or anyone else, to say what my family went through? My father worked like a slave all through the 30's trying to keep his widowed Mother alive and in her house, all the while being told by the childrens aid society that it was "sinful" for a widow and her lone son to be in a house together.....so, where's my money, etc?
See, IMO, the past is just that, the past, and should stay there.....

QUOTE,
not the length of their stay (though their being here first does hold some implications, imo).

So then I really am entitled to more than someone else according to your last line....yahoo!
 
Top