Plourde blames military for his decision to resign

[formerarmybrat23]

http://www.canadaeast.com/ce2/docroot/article.php?articleID=130968 this link will only be good for today so im pasting the story below:

An Oromocto councillor has resigned his seat.

Luc Plourde, a captain at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown, said he's had enough of "military interference" and officially tendered his resignation Thursday.

Plourde said he was no longer able to perform his duties for fear of reprisals from as many as three senior officers on base.

"I can no longer allow myself to be threatened by them for having done my duties as a town councillor properly," Plourde said in his resignation statement.

Plourde told The Daily Gleaner last month that senior officers at CFB Gagetown were stifling his ability to freely express himself.

He said his problems could be traced to a Nov. 15, 2005, television interview he did on improper garbage disposal within the military community.

Plourde said he spoke before a camera in civilian clothing and stated: "For me, as an officer, it's embarrassing to think that other military members are doing this."

Under military rules, a soldier can serve as a municipal councillor in communities such as Oromocto, but cannot identify himself or herself as being an Armed Forces member when performing council duties.

Plourde said related issues were responsible for him being charged with insubordination. He was found guilty of insulting a superior officer April 11 and will be reprimanded.

The former councillor said he has since learned he is under investigation for a couple of additional incidents.

"When does it end?" Plourde said in an interview Friday. "I stood before the general (at trial) for what I did as a councillor, not for my military duties. I was found guilty for protecting the rights of the citizens of Oromocto in doing the job that I was elected to do.

"I can't afford any more trials. I am out of money for lawyers and it has taken a huge toll on my family. What else could I do? It is time to walk away."

CFB Gagetown's public-affairs officer, Lt. (Navy) Brian Owens, said Plourde's decision to resign was his own and had nothing to do with the Canadian Forces.

Owens said as long as Plourde was aware of the "clear line" that divided his work on council and his life in the military, there was no issue regarding his involvement on council.

He said the military supports efforts of people working in the community and every attempt was made to give Plourde the time he needed to do his council duties.

"As for any accusations of ongoings reprisals, that's not the case," Owens said. "If there is, there are mechanisms in the Forces that he can address these concerns. That's certainly not the intent of any of the leadership here."

Owens said he was unaware of any other investigations against Plourde.

Oromocto Mayor Fay Tidd said she's sorry to lose Plourde because he was a good councillor.

"I sat with him time and time again and talked with him about his problems. He wanted to resign several times before and I talked him out of it, saying that he had a lot to offer and that he was going to get things straightened out, as far as his workplace is concerned."

Tidd rejected any suggestion that she didn't support Plourde.

"I make no comment about his workplace because I don't employ him as a captain in the military. I supervise what he is doing as a councillor in the Town of Oromocto and that's where I leave it."

Tidd said the resignation will leave the town with five councillors, instead of six.

is the
ive been kind of following this story for a while. on this last story i was really interested to see what other cf members thought of it. is the military sticking there nose in his personal life, bullying him? or is the army right? can they influence his job as councillor?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Under military rules, a soldier can serve as a municipal councillor in communities such as Oromocto, but cannot identify himself or herself as being an Armed Forces member when performing council duties

Quote,
"For me, as an officer, it's embarrassing to think that other military members are doing this."


He screwed up, its that simple.  Besides, on behalf of those who are not Officers, what kind of imbecilic leader would say that?  I guess those non- officer types wouldn't know any better?....................Stooge.

EDIT to add: if that is a direct quote that is, if not, than I apologize, if so.....as stands.

 

[GAP]

I applaud his community commitment, but is sounds like he crossed the line. He was told he could not identify himself with the CF while doing his councillor job...he did. He can't have it both ways

 

[formerarmybrat23]

he probably just wasnt thinking when he gave that interview. mistakes happen......even to officers. so he should have been disiplined and that should have been the end of it.
apparently its not the end of it; the poor guy feels intimidated and harrassed at work. Is there no sympathy for captins? how could you go to work everyday if you felt people were out to get you? ???

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Try being a Correctional Officer..... ^-^

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

For me, as an officer, it's embarrassing to think that other military members are doing this." and that is the statement that fried him, he used his status as a military officer with the press in a municipal duty, they call that conflict of interest and it violates the whole talking to the press directions.  If he was in uniform speaking on behalf of the base well that may have been a different story circumstance dependant.

 

[CdnArtyWife]

I've met the guy once or twice. And this actually doesn't surprise me. I think there was difficulty keeping the "hats" straight. Knowing when you are wearing what hat in what role and acting accordingly is difficult for some. It takes some getting used to...and Mr. Plourde had a few years to get used to it.

I remember that garbage story. When it ran, and I read his quote, I thought then that he had crossed the line...he only has one head, but had two hats on that day. NOT good.

Now the only hat he has to worry about is his beret, it is unfortunate, though, that he has already gotten it rumpled if you know what I mean.

CAW

 

[riggermade]

My personal opinion is that military members should not be able to run for public office for a couple of reasons

1.  They now have to serve two masters, the Military and the people they were elected by and this can be a vey fine line in dealing with some issues, especially in military communities such as Oromocto or Petawawa to name two

2.  If they have to deploy then they are leaving a hole in the town council they were elected to

If you wnat to be a politician then make a decision to serve the military or be elected, there is plenty of ways a military member can serve their community without being involved with the local politics

Before all you defenders of this individual jump all over me this is my personal opinion and I do not have an opinion one way or the other of what was said

 

[GAP]

I disagree....they should be allowed to run for office. As long as the constituents know he/she could be deployed etc.

When there is a conflict of interest, then he has simply to excuse himself because of the conflict of interest.

It is important that CF members participate in the community in all aspects. It is their right and is in the best interest of the CF

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

he probably just wasnt thinking when he gave that interview. mistakes happen......even to officers. so he should have been disiplined and that should have been the end of it.
apparently its not the end of it; the poor guy feels intimidated and harrassed at work. Is there no sympathy for captins? how could you go to work everyday if you felt people were out to get you? ???

Captains are company grade officers in the Canadian Forces, they have other higher moral obligations to consider when thier mouths open. For an officer to say they are embarressed by the CF while still serving is inexcusable, tell me if you were one of his soldiers would feel comfotable going into contact with him knowing he was embarressed by your actions. There are other ways to combat wrongs in the system. In this case garbage disposal, thats what formation/Bde enviroment officers and thier staff are for. His best course of action in this case would have been to refrain from commenting due to a conflict of interest in the matter (I bet his COC wouldn't be going after him as hard)

 

[CdnArtyWife]

Captains are company grade officers in the Canadian Forces, they have other higher moral obligations to consider when thier mouths open. For an officer to say they are embarressed by the CF while still serving is inexcusable, tell me if you were one of his soldiers would feel comfotable going into contact with him knowing he was embarressed by your actions. There are other ways to combat wrongs in the system. In this case garbage disposal, thats what formation/Bde enviroment officers and thier staff are for. His best course of action in this case would have been to refrain from commenting due to a conflict of interest in the matter (I bet his COC wouldn't be going after him as hard)

Just to clear up a point before getting back on track...

The garbage issue in question was the fact that in some areas of PMQ housing, predominently in the row housing, people were dumping garbage and large items like appliances and furniture on days other than scheduled pick-up days. The appliances and furniture would sit there for weeks, even months as those items are not included in the town large item pick-up program twice per year. The issue did get to be such an eye-sore that Col Jestin, 3ASG Cmdr, had to issue an order that garbage would be curbside in approved covered receptacles, and only on the morning of scheduled garbage pick-up days. As some garbage bags would be ripped open and refuse strewn about. Noone would clean it up. It was a big issue. But again, this was in the housing area, not on the base.

That is why his quote is controversial..in that he was speaking as a councelor wrt the garbage issue in his constituency, but not only disclosed that he was a CF member but then actually passed judgement on other military members...in the media, no less.

Now...back on track...

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

MQ housing areas while administered by CFHA are on behalf of the local BCEO, and the residents/occupants are still subject to the base commanders jurisdiction. So really any controversy in houseing areas is the commanders concern, we just had a case out here where the RCMP had to wait for the MP's to show up to execute a search warrent as all military property falls outside the jurisdiction, but back to garbage, there have been guys out here charged for failing to follow the Base Standing Order regarding the sorting of garbage and recycling. my 2 cents (and for the stray CAW, got my CEOTP now I'm Arty)

 

[Deleted member 9665]

1.  They now have to serve two masters, the Military and the people they were elected by and this can be a very fine line in dealing with some issues, especially in military communities such as Oromocto or Petawawa to name two

2.  If they have to deploy then they are leaving a hole in the town council they were elected to

If you want to be a politician then make a decision to serve the military or be elected, there is plenty of ways a military member can serve their community without being involved with the local politics

I do agree... can you say appearance of conflict of interest. I would not like to have a member of the public office loosing his leadership status over something that would have to do with a military member within the comunity.

Even if there is a rule "you are not allowed to tell or use the fact that you are in the military", during heated discussion it is bound to arrive that the person will tell it by accident.

If he has to be fired or he has to quit his office...it will leave a hole in the community and, therefore...cost extra tax payer money.

 

[Steel Badger]

Try being a Correctional Officer..... ^-^

People are out to get me?  dammit Bruce  where's the phone......I'm diving!

 

[GUNS]

Capt. Plourde crossed the line as a municipal councillor, either knowingly or unknowingly.

The situation the Capt. finds himself in is no different than on civvy street. After my military life, I found myself in a management position and at odds with upper management. I crossed the line by agreeing with the union on a certain incident that had happened. In the military we look after each other, not so on civvy street.

Capt. Plourde's situation, two masters(civilian/military), two sets of rules(civilian/military) is an incident waiting to happen. I applaud his dedication to the community but question his ignoring of military rules. There is no right or wrong in this incident, just rules and regulations.

 

[Journeyman]

I think the actual issue has been overlooked. In his remarks announcing he was quitting, he included the phrase, "as an officer," which people here seem to be commenting on.

However,

Plourde said related issues were responsible for him being charged with insubordination

Obviously he said the wrong thing to the wrong person at the wrong time. He got charged with it and faces a reprimand.

But rather than learn from the experience and soldier (or counsel) on, he's chosen to play himself within the media as some sort of martyr:
"no longer able to perform his duties for fear of reprisals from as many as three senior officers on base";
"I can no longer allow myself to be threatened by them";
"senior officers at CFB Gagetown were stifling his ability to freely express himself."

Joan of Oromocto?
:


Disclaimer: Perhaps I'm biased. I've actually experienced the military justice system (no doubt shocking to those who know me > ). Sure it took me 15 years to get that coveted CD, yet I've never felt a need to whine to the local media about persecution or sand in my ovaries. And I've found that the world still managed to turn with me duly chastised.

 

[3rd Horseman]

The entire story is much bigger than is detailed here or in the media.

Tidd the {ineffective} //////// mayor of Oromocto did not support him when needed, she is and always has been {slow to intervien on base issues} /////// and {out to become mayor so she can push through personnel ventures near to her heart and pocket book} /////////. It is now two mil have quit not one an it is not the first time...remember Vatch! This was a witch hunt by a weak senior officer who was put in his place by a subordinate. They got offended and went after him, did he push the bounds of decorum behind closed doors....yes, would I have told that very officer the same thing ....yes plus I would have gone down the hallway to his office in the HQ and I would have punched him (like I have done before).

The media fopaw by Capt P was created by the reporter who was asking questions off camera and taping the answers. The part you did not see as the public was the repeated questions by the reporter off camera, one being {but as an officer and member of the military does it not bother you} paraphrase as close as I can remember. He made a mistake its as simple as that. The mayor should have quieted things down as it was not that big an issue. The Snr officer should have dealt with being told off a little differently. In the end Capt P would have resolved this easily but the senior command at Gagetown refused to let this issue go due to other behind the scene issues. This is turning int another Vatch issue....I wonder if it will end up the same way.

I edited the tone here {} after reading Verns points, I have choosen better words.

 

[armyvern]

3rd Horseman,

Be careful where you want to take this. I've known Faye Tidd since 1982 and I do not feel that she can be described in any manner the way you have set out below. In addition to being the currently serving mayor of Oromocto, she is the Honourary Colonel of 403 Sqn in Gagetown.

Yes, the story as published certainly is a little bigger than that which can be seen in the article posted here, and it's not all good. My take on the turn of the story and his resignation may differ from yours however. A witch hunt? I wouldn't say that. If that were the case why is Councilman Mel Vance not having these problems while serving on the same Oromocto Town Council when he is also a serving member of the CF? Why is it that if, as you have insinuated, the mayor "is and always has been a coward and out for herself" the citizens of Oromocto have continued to re-elect her many times over the previous couple of decades? Why is it that when our Town Council (and the last mayor) were having difficulties getting the job done et al, that she could "come out of retirement", announce her candidacy and win that mayorality back so easily?

Yes, not all of us agree with you viewpoint, actually apparently quite the overwhelming majority of voters in Oromocto didn't obviously agree with your viewpoint. Truthfully, I'm not surprised and I say thanks to them.

Yes, I remember Vatche Arslanian, may he rest in peace. When I heard that he was killed in the crossfire while serving in Iraq with the ICRC I was saddened to hear of his loss. But his mixup with the CF and Town Council was caused as a direct result of his actions. No one else's. It had zero to do with the actions of the mayor way back when (Faye Tidd) and more to do with his refusal to report for his posting as direted on his CF posting message.

I'm quite shocked that even you can twist that one around to blame it on a civilian mayor.

A little more honest background on Vatche can be found linked here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatche_Arslanian

 

[3rd Horseman]

Mel had his issues over the same points, just not so public. On the Vatch issue if you are aware of the behind the closed door issues they are very similar in this case as far as base comd inteference in town politics. As Vatch was a close friend of mine and worked for me during the dust up his refusal of the posting was not the issue, just like in this case the words on the tape are not the issue they are much bigger.

Edit - Vern you are right the town just keeps voting for her, they also keep getting Andy Scott elected to. Is that more about the lack of voting then the actual support of the candidate, I wonder.

 

[armyvern]

Mel had his issues over the same points, just not so public. On the Vatch issue if you are aware of the behind the closed door issues they are very similar in this case as far as base comd inteference in town politics. As Vatch was a close friend of mine and worked for me during the dust up his refusal of the posting was not the issue, just like in this case the words on the tape are not the issue they are much bigger.

And Mel Vance is a personal friend of mine, and a currently serving member.

You know not of which you are choosing to speak to on his behalf.

Be very careful attributing things to people, especially in this case a serving CF member on the council. You will look like the ass in the end.

And as for Vatche, don't try to twist his story about now. It was he after all who went to the media and got political over that posting message when it wasn't going the way he wanted it to. He gave the interviews himself about his family and his refusal to report for duty (ergo the AWOL). So if the story is different than that, he still has only himself to blame for it.