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POL Def Min Offers Up Choppers for CAN in AFG

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Warsaw antes up
Poland's foreign minister pledges air support for Canadian troops in southern Afghanistan

Michael Petrou. Macleans.ca, 4 Feb 08
Article link

Poland is putting two of the eight helicopters it is sending to Afghanistan "at the disposal of Canada," the country’s foreign minister, Radek Sikorski, disclosed Sunday in an interview with Maclean’s.

The pledge goes some way toward meeting the conditions Prime Minister Stephen Harper has placed on extending Canada’s military mission in Kandahar province beyond February 2009. Harper accepted the recommendations of an independent panel chaired by former Liberal deputy prime minister John Manley, which argued that Canadian soldiers should stay in Kandahar on two conditions–that they are joined by another battle group of about 1,000 soldiers and that they secure the use of helicopters and unmanned aerial vehicles.

Poland is also sending 400 soldiers to Afghanistan to join the approximately 1,200 already in the country. Sikorski said they will operate "more or less" where most Polish soldiers are currently deployed, in the southeast of the country, bordering Pakistan, but added: “I can’t talk about the details of our deployment plan, but there will be more scope for Polish-Canadian cooperation.” He confirmed that Polish special forces are already operating in Kandahar and work closely with Canadians there.

Sikorski said Poland promised Canada the use of its helicopters after he met with Maxime Bernier, Canada’s minister of foreign affairs, in Brussels in December. But neither the Canadian nor the Polish government has previously announced the arrangement.

Radek Sikorski has longstanding ties to Afghanistan. In the 1980s, he was a student activist with the anti-communist Solidarity movement. He fled to Britain as a political refugee. After completing a degree at the University of Oxford, Sikorski travelled to Afghanistan in 1986 and spent much of the next three years there with the mujahedeen who were trying to drive the Soviets from their country.

"The Afghans were fighting for their liberty," he tells Maclean’s by way of an explanation for why he joined them.

Sikorski’s official government biography notes that he worked in Afghanistan as a reporter. This is true, but it’s not the whole story. Asked if he was in Afghanistan as a journalist or a combatant, Sikorski admits, "A bit of both … fighting mainly with a pen." At this, Sikorski allows himself a smile. He is a likeable but rather intense man, without being solemn or dour. He prefers to be called by the diminutive "Radek," rather than the more formal "Radoslaw."

Sikorski lived for more than a month in the mountains and caves of Tora Bora, when it was a mujahedeen base from which to attack the Soviets. Two decades later, Tora Bora was where Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda allies made their last stand before slipping away, almost certainly into Pakistan. Sikorski also got to know Kandahar province well. He spent weeks dodging Soviet patrols on the road connecting Kabul and Kandahar.

Today, these landmarks are once again fought over by Afghans and foreigners. But Sikorski rejects any suggestion that there are political similarities between the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and NATO’s current intervention in the country.

"The Soviets invaded a country which had been taken over by the Communist Party through a military coup and which had killed 200,000 of their own people. And the Soviets, it is estimated, killed about a million Afghans in area bombing and artillery shelling and by mines," he says.

"We are there under a UN resolution and at the invitation of the Afghan government. And we don’t want Afghanistan for anything, unlike the Soviets. We don’t want to be there for a day longer than the Afghans want us there. So I don’t think the political realities could be more different."

Sikorski’s accent when speaking English still bears the traces of his exile in Britain. His political convictions have also been shaped by the Cold War. When he was a student activist, many doubted that democracy could flourish in the eastern European countries under Soviet occupation. The same is often said today about the Middle East. Sikorski doesn’t buy it.

"When the Afghans or the Iraqis risk their lives and vote in larger proportions than we often do in our elections, when it costs us no risks, I am immensely impressed how much they want democracy," he says. "What they lack is security. And that’s why our troops are needed there. Democracy is a very fine thing, but physical security is more important. You can’t develop a country, you can’t build a democratic society, unless people feel secure in their homes. That’s why Poland has sent troops to Afghanistan and is sending some more."

Sikorski agrees with John Manley’s assessment that Afghanistan is NATO’s most important test. He is clearly frustrated with members of the alliance who refuse to "get their act together and send more troops." He’s also critical of the caveats some NATO countries place on how their soldiers can be used. Sikorski, who was previously Poland’s defence minister, says that when Poland commanded a multinational division in Iraq, the biggest challenge confronting his commanders in the field was "juggling of the various national rules of engagement that the soldiers were hamstrung by."

He sees the same obstacles today in Afghanistan. "We have to standardize the rules of engagement during NATO missions, and we should also devise ways of fairly sharing the risks so that there is no premium on free riding."

The stakes in Afghanistan are high, Sikorski believes. Failure would destroy NATO's credibility, and once that’s gone, the organization would no longer be useful. "Half the deterrent power of any alliance is credibility, is the assumption in the minds of its potential enemies that if NATO goes to war, NATO wins," he says. "So yes, we have to win. And I define victory not in military terms, but in terms of provinces and districts under firm, democratic Afghan government control."

But Sikorski is optimistic. It’s not going to be easy, he says, and it won’t be quick. He stresses that military force is only part of the answer. Political and economic efforts are also necessary. But ultimately, he believes, NATO will be successful in Afghanistan. In the meantime, he says, the world is watching Canada with admiration. And Polish help is "just over the horizon."

 
The Poles ante up....
Wish that the French, German, Italian, Spaniards, etc would do the same
 
geo said:
The Poles ante up....
Wish that the French, German, Italian, Spaniards, etc would do the same

Rumor has it that the French may be doing just that: http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=pos&eid=43
 
We can only hope that they all wake up and smell the coffee.
 
So what is the class and type of helicopter we are being offered ?
 
geo said:
And to think, if we hadn't contributed to the defence of West Germany, they mighta been answering our call with "Nyet comrade"

Yup. Fear of 4 Canadian Mechanized Speed Bump was what stopped the Red Menace from pouring through the Fulda gap.
 
Kat Stevens said:
Yup. Fear of 4 Canadian Mechanized Speed Bump was what stopped the Red Menace from pouring through the Fulda gap.
In talking with former Warsaw Pact officers in the 1990's, a former OC of mine came to the conclusion that the capabilities of 4 CMBG were grossly overestimated by our Red friends.  It seems as though they though that it was a brigade in name only.  They figured that its designation of "brigade group" was a deliberate ploy to throw them off.  Given the number of rail moves it used, the fact that it was designated as a corps reserve (for either III GE Corps or VII US Corps, depending on who you talk to and when), they deduced that it was a division, and planned to deal with it accordingly.  Nukes were probably the preferred option for dealing with a corps reserve.

Anyway, back on to the thread at hand.  It seems as though the newest members of NATO are more eager to contribute than some of the older states.  I'm not exactly sure how Poland contributed in the Warsaw Pact (in terms of compliance with stated pact objectives), but in NATO, they are, at least initially, certainly "walking the walk".  Didn't they even re-chamber their "AK" rifles for the 5.56 NATO round?  It will certainly be a pleasure to serve along side them in the kitty litter box.
 
I was wondering the same thing, Jed, my guess is Mi-8 or Mi-17.
 
It would seem they are sending some more troops as well.  Whether or not they leave the wire is another question.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,,1872125,00.html

Poland to send more troops to Afghanistan


Bonnie Malkin and agencies
Thursday September 14, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

Poland is to send another 900 troops to bolster the Nato peacekeeping force in Afghanistan, the Polish defence minister announced today.

The US and UK yesterday urged Nato nations to send more troops to Afghanistan to help fight the Taliban insurgency after a Nato commander called for reinforcements last week.

Poland already has a 100-strong contingent in the country.

"As of February next year, over 1,000 Polish soldiers are going to be serving in Afghanistan," the defence minister, Radoslaw Sikorski, told Polish television.

"It will be a mechanised battalion that will be stationed at Bagram, where 100 of our soldiers are. We are going to take part in operations primarily in the eastern part of Afghanistan."

The Nato general secretary, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, welcomed the announcement, calling it a "very important step" in the alliance's operations in Afghanistan.

However, a Nato official said the deployment was routine and had been arranged before the call for 2,500 extra troops.

"This is part of a regular reinforcement and rotation that had been planned previously," Lieutenant Colonel Goetz Haffke said from the alliance's command headquarters in the Netherlands.

Major Luke Knittig, a Nato spokesman in Kabul, said the alliance was "looking at how this can be sped up".

Michael Williams, head of the transatlantic programme at the Royal United Services Institute, said the deployment was good news for Nato's mission but would do more good if it reached Afghanistan in the next few weeks.

"It's the sooner the better in terms of the mission on the ground.

"The troops would be of more use now because the insurgency is going full throttle, but better 900 troops later than never."

Dr Williams said it was likely the insurgency would drop off during winter and it was wise to have the soldiers in place before spring.

"They will be in place going into the thaw when there's going to be more violence."

Poland's commitment would make a large difference to Nato's mission, but the alliance still needed another 1,500 soldiers, he said.

"They desperately need more soldiers on the ground. That's how you fight an insurgency like this, not from the air, from the ground."

Nato should ensure the soldiers were free to fight anywhere they were needed, and not bound by movement restrictions like the German forces, he said.

There are currently around 18,500 Nato troops in Afghanistan, with non-Nato countries contributing a further 1,500 to the force, known as the International Security Assistance Force (Isaf).

Last week, the leading Nato commander, US General James Jones, called for 2,500 additional soldiers to fight alongside British, Canadian and Dutch forces in the south of the country.

Mr Sikorski said the announcement of new troops for Afghanistan did not mean Poland was pulling out of Iraq, where it has 900 soldiers stationed in Baghdad. "No decision has been made on that," he added.

Nato forces claimed last night to be on the verge of their first large-scale success against the Taliban since the launch of their campaign in southern Afghanistan.

Isaf calculated that more than 500 Taliban, an estimated one third of the fighters believed to be in the Kandahar region, had been killed in the 13 days since the launch of the operation
 
Now the the Iron Curtain has been opened, younger Poles may be learning for the first time that a Polish Armoured Division fought as part of the First Canadian Army in WW2.

Perhaps, for diplomatic reasons, that is a partnership they now wish to re-emphasize.
 
I have feeling that Entry Visa to Canada has been dropped for Poland.. This is why they will sent those troops,..
I read that last year Polish Foreign Minister visited Canada, and they discussed this issue, and Polish Minister said that if they dropped Visas, then he might consider sending Polish Troops to StaN, to help out.. this is why they offered choppers to Canada at first, and the Canadian Government must of dropped Entry Visa..
:salute: :cdn:
 
I am surprised we even had a visa requirement for Poles.  Must have been a cold war hangover thing.
 
Canada still requires Polish nationals to obtain a temporary residential visa (TRV) for visits or any other purpose.  (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas.asp) There are several petitions in the works to try to change this, but that is the fact as of this date.

Canada and Poland have had a long and cordial relationship.  Canada was the first NATO member to ratify Polands entry into the organization in 1998, and despite hickups like the unfortunate death of the Polish national at the Vancouver International Airport, or relationship remains sound.

I suspect this is simply the case of a new entrant to NATO trying to further it's policy goals, which include closer integration with NATO and the rest of Europe, not a specific quid pro quo to get us to drop a visa requirement.
 
Kat Stevens said:
Yup. Fear of 4 Canadian Mechanized Speed Bump was what stopped the Red Menace from pouring through the Fulda gap.
Kat, 
I am talking not about only the 4 CMBG contribution to NATO in West Germany - I am talking about the combined US, UK, Canadian forces positioned to support West Germany in the event the Communist hordes decided to storm the Fulda gap on their way to the coast.
 
This is good news, and it's from Poland. The polish foreign minister told McKay that they will offer to send two polish military choppers to help our troops in Kandahar. Good for them! Now if we can just get a few more EU countries to do the same, this may be the start of something beautifull.

Posted with the usual disclaimers

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/02/04/poland-afghanistan.html

Poland backs Canada's call for help in southern Afghanistan
Offers to send two helicopters to the region
Last Updated: Monday, February 4, 2008 | 11:00 PM ET
CBC News

Poland's foreign minister has chimed in to Canada's call for help in Afghanistan, saying Monday that responsibilities there must be more evenly distributed between intervening nations.

Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski told reporters in Ottawa that his country will send helicopters to southern Afghanistan.
(Tom Hanson/Canadian Press)
Speaking in Ottawa, Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski said his country supports Canada in its bid for more troops and equipment in southern Afghanistan. His comments came as Defence Minister Peter MacKay prepares for a private meeting between international defence ministers in Lithuania later this week.

"And we will certainly, together with Canada, be arguing very forcefully … that more needs to be done, that burdens have to be shared more fairly, and that there's no room for free-riding in these most important operations that NATO has ever undertaken," Sikorski said.

He announced Monday that Poland will send two of its eight military helicopters to volatile southern Afghanistan in an attempt to meet Canada's call for more troops and equipment in Kandahar.

Sikorski said he hopes Poland's commitment will be a good beginning toward meeting Canada's demands. Poland currently has 1,200 troops who are fighting mostly in the eastern part of Afghanistan.

"I hope we're showing not only that Canada's contributions and sacrifices are appreciated, also that Canada's voice is being heard," Sikorski said after a speech to the Canadian International Council.

MacKay lauded Poland's contribution, saying the two helicopters will be used to transport Canadian troops and equipment. He is scheduled to meet with NATO allies in Lithuania on Thursday and Friday to discuss the mission.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said he will only consider extending Canada's Afghan mission beyond February 2009 if NATO provides about 1,000 additional troops to Kandahar province, where most of Canada's 2,500 troops are serving. Harper also wants more helicopters and unmanned aerial vehicles.

The conditions are based on the conclusions of a report released in January by former Liberal cabinet minister John Manley's independent panel. Harper, who commissioned the report, said he "broadly" supported its findings.

Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion is scheduled to meet with Harper on Tuesday to discuss the report and Canada's future in Afghanistan. He has said that he does not support an extension of Canada's combat operations there, but that troops could remain in the country for reconstruction and security training purposes.

Dion said he does not agree with NDP Leader Jack Layton that the United Nations should take over the mission.

"I think the UN will never accept to do this mission if NATO is not there," he said.

Harper, MacKay and former defence minister Gordon O'Connor have all complained that a small number of NATO allies are carrying the heaviest load in Afghanistan.

Canadian, American, British and Dutch troops are deployed in the violent southern region, while countries like Germany, France and Italian troops are under self-imposed restrictions that keep them out of combat operations and in more stable provinces.
 
Mortarman Rockpainter said:
... Nukes were probably the preferred option for dealing with a corps reserve.
the walk".  ...

- Yup. One plan 'found' after the wall came down was a first strike against NATO installations using 527 tactical nuclear warheads.
 
In RC South, the "Partnership for Peace" members of ISAF, such as Romania and Poland, were out there doing a lot more with far fewer resources than some of the bigger NATO members.

Let's stick with our friends (and your friends are the ones who actually do what they say) and lets carry on without twisting ourselves into knots over NATO members participation or non participation. I will take two real helicopters and 400 Polish troops on the ground over phantom NATO contributions any day. We should also not discount the estimated 5 battalions of ANA who should be in place in Kandahar province by the end of this ROTO, while they may be lacking in the Gucci equipment and capabilities that Western forces have, you don't want to be on the wrong side of these guys.

If we replace the word NATO in the Manley report's call for extra troops, then we are already there with the reinforcements. Now to get those helicopters and UAV's.......
 
Selected adjusted extracts from the interview with BRIG-GEN Jerzy Biziewski, a commander of Polish Military Contingent, a deputy commander of RC-East, Afghanistan
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3020933&postcount=1042

[Note: Below he refers to Super Shura - an annual meeting of local authorities and tribal leaders, which took place at the end of January 2008. 600 people participated. - MZ]

Our patrols go to villages not only with weapons; they mostly go out with humanitarian aid - which is very much appreciated by the locals. We are not here just to shoot at people; we are here to support people. And we work on it in several dimensions: security, government and the development.

ANA
How ANA is doing in our province? They are great people. I know personally COL Maluk, a commander of the 2nd Brigade of Afghan National Army; we have met several times. He and his people are very devoted to their nation. They are doing better and better every week. Obviously the Americans and we, the Poles, provide assistance to them - with our expertise and our troops. But ANA carries its own operations in our province, coordinating with us. So, they actually represent a new quality in Afghan army - they not only learn from us, they operate independently with our assistance.

CIMIC
About humanitarian aid and development? I'd like to clearly spell out the difference between CIMIC (civil-military cooperation) and development. The former is a part of security activity - patrols, convoys - with CIMIC teams attached to the operational force to help the people and convince them that we are there not to destroy their village but to support them.

To give you some examples: during the last three months our doctors and medics have helped more than 2,400 Afghan patients - doing medical examination, carrying simple procedures and distributing drugs. We have distributed 30 metric tons of food to remote areas - distanced several hours of drive from a nearest town. In some cases they had nothing left to eat. We have also distributed 3000 pairs of shoes and boots, 1500 blankets, 100 portable coal heaters - that sort of stuff.

CERP
Quite different is an economical development strategy, funded by Commander's Emergency Response Program, CERP. The biggest portion of this fund is an American one. Every commander at certain level has his own money to respond very quickly to requirements of local population. For example, in the last three months the Polish Battle group - working with our American friends and their money - has spent about $35,000 US on small projects - small bridges, medical supplies, 14 tents for schools in lieu of classrooms. Almost $130,000 US funds have been allocated to other CERP projects: water pipes, wells, drainage ditches, solar lights, power generators, or even wheat seed to make sure that they have some grain left to sow in the spring time.

And we have provided school supplies, school books, farming tools. And mind you - all those projects have been carried in God forsaken places - Wazi Khwa, Yala Khel, mountain villages - places forgotten by other people and humanitarian organizations.

Polish funded projects
And there are also purely Polish projects: 4000 student kits with writing utensils, sachets, pencils, notebooks; 800-1500 of desks, blackboards, and chairs for the schools. Medical equipment, furniture and supplies for Sharana and Wazi Khwa hospitals - beds, mattresses, bed clothes, screens, nanometers, thermometers, drugs, bandages - this sort of stuff. Altogether, we have delivered this kind of assistance worth about $500,000 US during the last three month, mostly at remote villages.

We have some pay back in return of course for all this good work because we have established very good contacts with local people this way.

How to stop Taliban recruitment of youngsters?
There are some remote places in Dila and Kushamond that are the terrorist havens; where it is very dangerous to go, even with weapons. Yesterday I talked with several elders from that regions about the Taliban recruitment issue. They asked for some assistance for schools there, so the youngsters would no go out to madrases in Pakistan, where they are being indoctrinated by Taliban.

From my own perspective, the key for success in this field is to have close ties with local population, as close as possible - with those elders, with mullahs; to educate people, to assist them with the basic needs. They don't require much; they're just asking for little - just to survive within their community. They said that if we help them with it this will be very appreciated.

Request for Polish civilian aid and governmental involvement
There is a false image of Afghanistan operations back home. From my perspective, this is not a pure military operation, it is - or at least it should be - an operation responding to the needs of local civilian population in Paktika province.

I would ask for more assistance on the civilian side of the operation. I very much missed some kind of support from various Polish ministries - industry, health care, rural development. That kind of specialists, would provide very valuable contribution to the whole operation - if they came here with some resources. I would expect small teams of experts from various ministries coming here to evaluate the needs of local population.

Things that we are doing now locally deserve the support of the entire nation, like Poland: ditches, irrigation system, drainage systems, solar lights, power generators. The real requirements are there - for example, no power stations exist in entire Paktika province.

Health care system needs a lot of support. To you give an example how dramatic the things are here: there is only one female doctor, a gynecologist, for, say, at least 150,000 potential female patients. [Total population of Paktika is 350,000 - MZ]

Some Polish humanitarian organizations have asked me, as the commander of this area, for protection for their planned humanitarian activity among villagers this Spring. I was very happy to hear about it. One of them is a medical foundation. I expect to see seven or eight people coming this Spring.
This is the kind of stuff we really need here.

We do not need military with tanks, military with weapons. We need the civilian support here. And with those forces we already have we can provide safety and security for those civilian forces coming here to support the civilian population.

The expectation of the local population?
I already said what they expect. In addition, they also asked for animals, just to buy some farm animals for stock recovery which they lost during winter time. They do not need much - five, ten heads per family. These are the kind of requirements that they need.

We discussed a lot about the security issues during the Super Shura. They have assured me that my soldiers and I will always be safe in their villages. And I believe them because we have received similar reassurances one month ago from certain areas and there have not been a single combat contact in those areas as yet. So they can be trusted - they keep their promisses.

The elders from those very dangerous areas - Dila and Kushamond - have been asking me, very surprisingly, for establishment of police force and the district centres in those districts. There used to be police outlets established by our American friends, but have been abandoned since due to great danger.

So it is a very good sign that they are asking again to re-establish those districts - a good sign that they are waiting for us to go there. They would like to be protected from caliphs, from Taleban.

They also ask for the roads because in Paktika province there are almost no roads, aside from few main roads built by the American engineers. They ask for a road from Sharana to Wazi Khwa - this is actually a planned American project. They ask for roads to Wazi Khwa and Kushamond. They really ask for very simple things, which are beyond their own capability.

They also ask for longer opening hours of hospitals - Waza Khwa and Sharana, the only two hospitals in the province. You can imagine what kind of crowd is there every day.
 

Loosely based on a transcript of the video tele-conference Bagram-Brussels, http://www.nato.int/isaf/media/video/2008/index.html
Some style and grammar adjustments and abbreviations by MZ

Mark
Ottawa


 
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