Pope resigns
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Gorgo
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His Holiness did the right thing . . . unlike his predecessor, who allowed his illnesses to totally incapacitate him near the end of his tenure at the Vatican. Let's hope the next person selected - and it might be nice to have a Canadian fill that role! 
- will have a level head.
- will have a level head.
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It is an interesting situation. Especially in light of the decision of the Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands to abdicate in favour of her son and the contrasting decision of Queen Elizabeth to live out her tenure.
While I can understand His Holiness's concern about not being able to manage the Church as his faculties are challenged there is another aspect to his role and that is the one that he shares with Queens Beatrix and Elizabeth: their roles as figureheads. I continue to argue that the figurehead role is actually more important than any executive role that they may have or may be denied.
Her Majesty has a very limited executive role but still wields power as an exemplar. I believe the same to be true of His Holiness.
Could not His Holiness have taken the same tack as many others and stayed in office while handing the executive role over to a Chief of Staff?
As a Presbyterian by upbringing if not currently a charter member I am just curious.
While I can understand His Holiness's concern about not being able to manage the Church as his faculties are challenged there is another aspect to his role and that is the one that he shares with Queens Beatrix and Elizabeth: their roles as figureheads. I continue to argue that the figurehead role is actually more important than any executive role that they may have or may be denied.
Her Majesty has a very limited executive role but still wields power as an exemplar. I believe the same to be true of His Holiness.
Could not His Holiness have taken the same tack as many others and stayed in office while handing the executive role over to a Chief of Staff?
As a Presbyterian by upbringing if not currently a charter member I am just curious.
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Kirkhill said:
Google "Vatileaks" and you may discover why handing off to the Chief of Staff might not be such a good idea. If there are problems in the bureaucracy as alleged in some reports, handing off to them to manage would not be the best choice.
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Was listening to a discussion about this on the radio earlier today. On of the persons involved was Rev. Mark Morozowich Associate Professor of Liturgical Studies and Sacramental Theology, Dean of the School of Theology and Religious Studies, Catholic University in Washington DC.
One thing he pointed out is that within the Catholic Church, Bishops typically step down from their positions at the age of 75 due to the day to day demands being very hard for someone of advanced years. However, The Pope, also being the Bishop of Rome, typically runs as a lifetime appointment. He has both the day to day responsibilities of both the Catholic Church as a whole, but also the Diocese of Rome as well.
It's also interesting to note that there is a maximum voting age for Cardinals in the enclave. All voting members must be 80 years of age or younger (if I understood him correctly)
One thing he pointed out is that within the Catholic Church, Bishops typically step down from their positions at the age of 75 due to the day to day demands being very hard for someone of advanced years. However, The Pope, also being the Bishop of Rome, typically runs as a lifetime appointment. He has both the day to day responsibilities of both the Catholic Church as a whole, but also the Diocese of Rome as well.
It's also interesting to note that there is a maximum voting age for Cardinals in the enclave. All voting members must be 80 years of age or younger (if I understood him correctly)
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I believe the real argument on why some believe he should have served until his death is the fear he will have a real impact on both the election of the new Pope, and the possibility his mere presence would hamper a more moderate Pope from advancing change. Could he stand silently by while some of the reforms he stymied were progressed by the new guy?
The counter-argument to that is that it might be a good thing that he's around to assist the transition of a new pope. I imagine he won't be involved in the selection of the pope because he is too old to vote in the conclave.captloadie said:
Most of the reforms he stymied are not truly reforms, but would be cause a radical reshaping of the Roman Catholic Church's teachings on faith and morals. The Catholic Church doesn't change it's teaching on faith and morals; altering practices, which it does from time to time, is another matter, but most of the reforms that moderates or liberals are hoping for, while conservatives and traditional Catholics oppose them, are issues of faith and morals, and not of practice.
I would think that a moderate hoping to reform the Church's teachings doesn't have a very good chance of being selected.
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I believe that Benedict's stated plans are to move to the Summer residence in San Marino after he steps down on the 28th, and once a new Pope has been selected he will retire to a monastical residence within the Vatican. He won't have any involvement with the Conclave.
There has been some discussion about who he would prefer to see succeed him, but as we all know, the Vatican (and the Catholic Church) has been a political body for it's entire history. As such, there is no telling how the final outcome will resolve itself. Much like national politics, there are many factions amongst the Cardinals and Bishops. And even within the factions there is infighting and deal making.
There has been some discussion about who he would prefer to see succeed him, but as we all know, the Vatican (and the Catholic Church) has been a political body for it's entire history. As such, there is no telling how the final outcome will resolve itself. Much like national politics, there are many factions amongst the Cardinals and Bishops. And even within the factions there is infighting and deal making.
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I agree on your point about the Church not changing its teachings on faith and morals. In fact, even as a non Catholic, I fully support this train of thought. I have always pondered why someone who claims they are a devout follower of a certain sect of teachings (Catholic, Anglican, Muslim, Budhist) thinks that the Church must reform itself to meet the changing world. I think instead they should look at themselves and decide on whether maybe they should examine their true beliefs, and then convert to a religion that better marries up with ones values. Because at the end of the day, I don't have a problem having my minister being a divorced lesbian with three children, specifically because I'm not Catholic (or Baptist for that matter).jwtg said:
NavyHopeful
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*quick off topic*
I find, when dealing with certain people of religious beliefs, that the ones who are able to incorporate their beliefs into the flow of their daily life and the normal happenstance of life around them, are the true followers of their beliefs.
I myself am not baptized into any specific religion. My wife is Catholic. My mother is Jehovah's Witness. My grandfather has a PhD in Theology, and says that all religions tend to be flawed, because they are run by man. But it is my opinion that I tend to look for, and that I live by. I am of the opinion that you can tell a lot about a person, not by his/her beliefs, but by their actions.
Take the atheist who volunteers at a soup kitchen or homeless shelter, or even just buys a bunch of happy meals at McDonald's to give out to the people on the street. Or, in contrast, the person who tells people that they are wrong and they are going "down south to that evil place" if they don't agree with their specific religious beliefs.
*back on topic*
In my opinion, if his Holiness decides that his faith and the church he serves would be better served by his stepping down, and having someone who, in his opinion, would be better suited to carry the weight and responsibility of the position, that I have to stand and applaud the man for trying, in his own way, to act in the greater good for his belief system. Catholic or not, I see this action as the sign of someone who is, in fact, a natural leader. I wish him well.
I find, when dealing with certain people of religious beliefs, that the ones who are able to incorporate their beliefs into the flow of their daily life and the normal happenstance of life around them, are the true followers of their beliefs.
I myself am not baptized into any specific religion. My wife is Catholic. My mother is Jehovah's Witness. My grandfather has a PhD in Theology, and says that all religions tend to be flawed, because they are run by man. But it is my opinion that I tend to look for, and that I live by. I am of the opinion that you can tell a lot about a person, not by his/her beliefs, but by their actions.
Take the atheist who volunteers at a soup kitchen or homeless shelter, or even just buys a bunch of happy meals at McDonald's to give out to the people on the street. Or, in contrast, the person who tells people that they are wrong and they are going "down south to that evil place" if they don't agree with their specific religious beliefs.
*back on topic*
In my opinion, if his Holiness decides that his faith and the church he serves would be better served by his stepping down, and having someone who, in his opinion, would be better suited to carry the weight and responsibility of the position, that I have to stand and applaud the man for trying, in his own way, to act in the greater good for his belief system. Catholic or not, I see this action as the sign of someone who is, in fact, a natural leader. I wish him well.
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Me too. :nod:NavyHopeful said:
Hey, maybe I am religious.
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