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Pot-smoking Mountie can't smoke in uniform, RCMP says

Fishbone Jones

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"Under the Canadian Human Rights Act, employers must accommodate individuals and groups of individuals to the point of undue hardship considering issues of health, safety and cost.

The Employment Equity Act requires the reasonable accommodation of persons with disabilities and others within the federal workplace. The Act also requires employers to identify and remove barriers to the employment of persons in designated groups."


http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=12541&section=text
 

JorgSlice

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I will try and find the document but I read something stating that the consumption of Medical Marijuana is only considered legal and effective if vapourized, not smoked.
 

PMedMoe

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Check out section 4.3.1 Essential duties and the current job

What would constitute "essential" duties in the RCMP?  Will this guy eventually be able to drive a vehicle or handle a weapon?

The CF will release people for not meeting universality of service.  The RCMP, more than likely, have the same type of standard.
 

The_Falcon

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ballz said:
Cost of dried marijuana plant for smoking (astronomically low) vs cost of isolating the drug in a nasal spray or in pill form or however else it can be done, packaging it, etc?

I am pretty sure THC can still be delivered in measured doses in joints as well. Growers can control the THC content of plants when growing them.

Pretty sure?  Right........ ::)

So because the costs are low, that is an acceptable reason to use a "medical" product in such an uncontrolled fashion and inconsistent fashion? Once the plant is dried and cut up how exactly does a person control precisely how much THC they are absorbing with out having CSI lab in their house to test each and every joint they role.  Sorry for the side track, but the whole idea of medical marijuanna as it currently stands is so friggen illogical I can't understand how in the hell the medical community even supports this.  If there is anything I have learned from our medical folks is that medication is all about specificity. If you have A symptoms, you take X meds, at Y dosage(s), at Z times.  Too little XYZ and A doesn't go away.  Too much and you get a Med Tech chewing you out about the dangers of acetiminophen on your liver for the next hour ( ;) ).  You don't see people smoking opium for pain, or rubbing cocaine on their gums for dental work.
 

mariomike

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PMedMoe said:
The CF will release people for not meeting universality of service.  The RCMP, more than likely, have the same type of standard.

"On the CF side, you have the universality of service, which actually allows people to get out. On the RCMP side, you have the duty to accommodate, which actually keeps people in."
http://openparliament.ca/committees/veterans-affairs/41-1/23/guy-parent-28/

Medical Discharge and the Duty to Accommodate in the RCMP
http://www.erc-cee.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/rtcls/a-021-eng.aspx?texthighlight
 

JorgSlice

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Disregard my post above.

The "medical marijuana shall be vapourized not smoked" policy is an Alberta Health Services policy only.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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recceguy said:
"Under the Canadian Human Rights Act, employers must accommodate individuals and groups of individuals to the point of undue hardship considering issues of health, safety and cost.

The Employment Equity Act requires the reasonable accommodation of persons with disabilities and others within the federal workplace. The Act also requires employers to identify and remove barriers to the employment of persons in designated groups."


http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=12541&section=text

This is nice and all but the problem we are incurring is that we have given individual Doctors God-like powers to decide what folks "need" to get by.........Doctors can be pathetic brain-dead people too, but management never seems to have the stones to say "No, prove it".

You just can't believe some of the kife notes that some folks have......
 

Kirkhill

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ballz said:
Cost of dried marijuana plant for smoking (astronomically low) vs cost of isolating the drug in a nasal spray or in pill form or however else it can be done, packaging it, etc?

I am pretty sure THC can still be delivered in measured doses in joints as well. Growers can control the THC content of plants when growing them.

Same rationale for using gum from poppies vice harvested alkaloids from the same source.

The issue is one of control.  Yes costs go up but risks to individuals and society decrease.

If THC is an effective medicament then extract it, isolate it, purify it and dose it .... under control.

If THC is not as effective as MJ then further research is required.
 

The_Falcon

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Bruce Monkhouse said:
This is nice and all but the problem we are incurring is that we have given individual Doctors God-like powers to decide what folks "need" to get by.........Doctors can be pathetic brain-dead people too, but management never seems to have the stones to say "No, prove it".

You just can't believe some of the kife notes that some folks have......

God-like powers seems accurate, given this is the criteria put forth by the good folks at Health Canada

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/marihuana/how-comment/eligible-admissible-eng.php#a1

"To be authorized to possess marihuana for medical purposes under the Marihuana Medical Access Program, your symptoms and conditions must fall within either Category 1 OR Category 2 symptoms, as determined by your licensed medical practitioner (medical doctor):

Category 1 Symptoms

Any symptom treated within the context of compassionate end-of-life care,

OR

Symptoms related to specific medical conditions, namely:
Severe pain and/or persistent muscle spasms from multiple sclerosis
Severe pain and/or persistent muscle spasms from a spinal cord injury
Severe pain and/or persistent muscle spasms from a spinal cord disease
Severe pain, cachexia, anorexia, weight loss, and/or severe nausea from cancer
Severe pain, cachexia, anorexia, weight loss, and/or severe nausea from HIV/AIDS infection
Severe pain from severe forms of arthritis
Seizures from epilepsy


Category 2 Symptoms

A debilitating symptom that is associated with a medical condition or with the medical treatment of that condition, other than those described in Category 1.
"

How this qualifies as medicine given such vague criteria is is.....I have no words.  A bottle of Tylenol is more specific than this. 
 

dapaterson

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Doctors use medications off-label all the time; in some cases, medicatiosn are made to do one thing, but a side-effect is of greater commerical value.  As I recall, rogaine was a heart medication until they noticed hair growth; and satyriasys was at first merely a side effect of viagra.
 

The_Falcon

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dapaterson said:
Doctors use medications off-label all the time; in some cases, medicatiosn are made to do one thing, but a side-effect is of greater commerical value.  As I recall, rogaine was a heart medication until they noticed hair growth; and satyriasys was at first merely a side effect of viagra.

But at the time (and even now in their current use) there is still a fairly well defined who should/should not use said medication.  Not the case here, under this criteria, anything and everything can be eligible.  For something that is supposed to be a controlled substance under our current drug laws, there doesn't appear to be too much control of who is eligible.  This kind of looseness is more akin to the crap peddled by snake oil salesmen/infomercials, than what is required for every other prescription medication out there. 
 

cupper

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dapaterson said:
Doctors use medications off-label all the time; in some cases, medicatiosn are made to do one thing, but a side-effect is of greater commerical value.  As I recall, rogaine was a heart medication until they noticed hair growth; and satyriasys was at first merely a side effect of viagra.

Viagra was originally developed to be a treatment for hypertension, but was found to be less effective than other drugs already on the market. However one of the more notable side-effects made it a commercial success.

There are a couple of synthetic versions of THC available in prescription drug form, but patients who have taken it say that it is not as fast acting as vaporized cannabis. Also the effects are somewhat more pronounced than smoked or vaporized cannabis.

Researchers suspect that it is the combination of several chemicals within cannabis smoke / vapor that make it more effective than isolated THC alone. Some act as an anti-inflammatory, others mediate the psycotropic effects.

But in IMO I think this guy pissed in his own bed. He was told what the policy was, and then challenged it by making a public spectacle.   
 

Container

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Members on restricted duties do not answer calls. Handle firearms. Drive police vehicles. They aren't allowed to leave the office in uniform even if the town is burning down.

There seems like there is a lot more to this story.

He's started the contest by his actions- and he videotaped the officers when they came for the uniform. He has an agenda and a soapbox now.

I know a guy that's been on"light duties" for 15 years now just working in the office. The force needs a better plan for injured members that will never return to work but right now we have them occupying desks and giving advice and writing policy despite having not done police work in years.

Pot in uniform is dumb. On camera is dumber
 

The Bread Guy

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Container said:
There seems like there is a lot more to this story.
QFTT - as is the case with most media stories.

BTW, thanks to all those providing a bit of useful context for those of the rest of us.
 

SupersonicMax

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Hatchet Man said:
But at the time (and even now in their current use) there is still a fairly well defined who should/should not use said medication.  Not the case here, under this criteria, anything and everything can be eligible.  For something that is supposed to be a controlled substance under our current drug laws, there doesn't appear to be too much control of who is eligible.  This kind of looseness is more akin to the crap peddled by snake oil salesmen/infomercials, than what is required for every other prescription medication out there.

What about morphine, or any "hard" drugs (or their equivalent) that are prescribed daily?

This is purely and only a matter of how the general population sees a member of X organization smoking a joint.  Nothing more.  With education and time, it will become normal, just like it's normal to administer hard drugs for pain.
 

ballz

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Hatchet Man said:
Pretty sure?  Right........ ::)

I don't know what you're rolling your eyes at, by "pretty sure" I meant "I know for a fact" and then I told you "Growers can control the content of THC..." But sure, roll your eyes and pretend its not true, wouldn't want to the truth to get in the way of your ability to be ignorant.

Hatchet Man said:
So because the costs are low, that is an acceptable reason to use a "medical" product in such an uncontrolled fashion and inconsistent fashion?

It doesn't have to be "an uncontrolled and inconsistent fashion." It can be measured, easily.

Hatchet Man said:
Once the plant is dried and cut up how exactly does a person control precisely how much THC they are absorbing with out having CSI lab in their house to test each and every joint they role.

Put your swords away and use some common sense for a second. The producer has the "CSI lab" and can grow the plant to spec and advertise as such. How do you measure how much acetiminophen is in the capsule you ingest? You don't. The producer does. It doesn't have to be any different for marijuana. Some of the stores in California that sell medical marijuana advertise the make-up of each product right at the counter.

"X Type Mary Jane - 4% THC" (which is the weight of THC over the weight of the entire dried plant, FYI).

Doctor could prescribe "Smoke 500mg 3x daily of X Type Mary Jane." Done. No different than any other drug.

Now, I'll admit that smoking is an unusual delivery method, and from what I've read the medical community also has a problem with the idea in principal, but other delivery methods have failed to produce results. Marinol was one of the synthetic THCs they created in pill form. It was very unpredictable patient to patient on how much would be absorbed by the body.

Here's a decent article, if you're going to get all bent out of shape about it you might as well take a look http://www.menshealth.com/medical-marijuana/

Kirkhill said:
Same rationale for using gum from poppies vice harvested alkaloids from the same source.

The issue is one of control.  Yes costs go up but risks to individuals and society decrease.

If THC is an effective medicament then extract it, isolate it, purify it and dose it .... under control.

If THC is not as effective as MJ then further research is required.

See my post above, just wanted to mention that I don't know if I would compare the "risks to individuals and society" of marijuana with the ones associated with opium. If someone inhales more marijuana that was prescribed, its unlikely to have any negative effect...
 

Stoker

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More on this http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/pot-smoking-mountie-has-uniform-seized-by-rcmp-1.2444352
 

Jarnhamar

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He still has his badge, as he is still a police officer, but he said he is currently on medical leave.

"It was very emotional for me," Francis told CBC-Radio's As It Happens, fighting back tears.

"I spent 20 years of my life in service to this country and stood up for the members that stand up for the Canadian public and they took one of the things that was most valuable to me 'cause I earned that uniform, like any other member of that division."

The seizure of his work clothes came after Francis was pictured smoking marijuana while wearing his red serge uniform.

I really feel bad for this guy having his uniform taken away for smoking drugs in it after being told by his chain of command NOT to smoke drugs while in his uniform.

He was given his arcs, he didn't agree with them, he pushed the boundary and now he's paying the price for it.
 

Strike

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cupper said:
There are a couple of synthetic versions of THC available in prescription drug form, but patients who have taken it say that it is not as fast acting as vaporized cannabis. Also the effects are somewhat more pronounced than smoked or vaporized cannabis.

Researchers suspect that it is the combination of several chemicals within cannabis smoke / vapor that make it more effective than isolated THC alone. Some act as an anti-inflammatory, others mediate the psycotropic effects.

Bang on.

I have a relative who is on Med MJ to counteract some of the effects of the medication she's on, namely lack of appetite.  Originally they had prescribed her the synthetic stuff and it was knocking her out more than her pain meds.  At least with smoking it, she takes a few puffs and she's good until her next meal.

I've seen her on both the synthetic and the pot and I much prefer her smoking it.
 

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This made me think of soldiers smoking marijuana in Vietnam. Regarding all this gun weilding, uniform wearing shpeel. I agree he shouldn't be allowed to smoke in uniform in public to preserve the respect for the law in the publics eye. And it kind of sounds like he's being a douche, and he definitely shouldn't have a weapon. Tres drool

The RCMP, like the CF, is an organization with rules..and if you're breaking the rules then expect consequences.

My  :2c: on measured doses. You'd just weigh the marijuana joint wouldn't you? And if you knew the compound, I.e thc level, that would be presumably easy to dose specifically. And I know of you smoked too much you'd just become...hungry, maybe spacey...and snap out of it a few hours later feeling lethargic and slightly dumber..unable to think say, tactically.
 
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