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PROCESSING TIMES: A 2003/2004 BREAKDOWN.

kincanucks

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1. Okay lets start with 24,000 applicants (Officers (all plans) and NCMs (all plans) for 2003/2004 (15,000 Reg F and 9,000 Res F).  After processing (CFAT, Drug Screening, Medical, Interview and applicants voluntary withdrawing (3600)) there are 12,300 left with 4600 of those being enrolled (results of selection boards for Officers and NCMs) in the Reg F and 4200 of those being enrolled (some changed their minds) in the Res F.

2. What would be ideal for processing times:

A=complete application received (med docs and prior service records received if applicable).

CFAT                                    A+14 days
Medical 1,2                            A+14
Medical 3                              A+44
ERC                                      A+28
PT Test                                A+21
MCC Interview                        A+14
Selection Board                      A+47
Offer                                    A+54 to 97
Enrolment                            A+75 to 188

3. Realty (based on a sampling of three thousand enrolled Reg F files (Officers and NCMs).  Res F numbers were lower for obivious reasons:

Processed (CFAT, Medical 1,2, Medical 3, ERC, PT Test, and MCC Interview):

25% < 77 days
50% <129 days
75% <224 days
10% >1 year

From Selection board to offer to enrolment:

25% <42 days
50% <65 days
75% <120 days
3% >300 days

4. Some differences can be attributed to non-standardized processing and improper inputting of completion dates into the recruiting information management system (a big problem with garbage in and garbage out).

5. Overview of all enrolled Reg F and Res F files from CFAT to enrolment:

3% are enrolled in less than 30 days
32% are enrolled  between 31 and 90 days
36% are enrolled between 91 and 180 days
24 % are enrolled between 6 and 12 months
5% take more than 12 months to be enrolled.

6. Current initiatives to alleviate wait times and hopefully applicant frustrations:

Processing Standardization:
-Applications will only be accepted when the candidate has provided all relevant documentation.
-Aim to complete the testing, medical, interview and fitness testing within 2-3 visits to CFRC/Ds.
-Standardized the use of processing priority process to reduce the number of applicants in processing and in selection who don't stand a chance of getting the trade that they want.  Remember my previous posts about how we assess each application for it's competitiveness for the trade you are applying for against the number of positions available for that trade?

7. So are we doing great?, not really but are we doing as horrible as some people would have you believe?, no.  Can we do better?  Of course we can.  I look forward to answering the many questions that this thread will certainly generate. Cheers.
 
Kincanucks,
I know that you give good advice so I hope you can help. I handed in my apps on 03-02-05 and I called the recruiting center about 3 weeks ago and the sargeant that in charge of my applications was sick that day so I spoke to a different recruiter and he said that there is a lag in the process because of the RMC applications so he said that I would be able to do my tests in April. I haven't recieved a phine call so do you think that I should call them? I don't want to become a painin the ass though please help!!
 
Thanks for the stats kincanucks. I was one of those 4000+ and got in what seems like a very average 6 months. CFRC was upfront with the wait times from the start and they were accurate.

The only thing that could of sped up my DEO file was more courses and selection boards for Officers, bureaucracy didn't really stall me at all. I think adding a starting date or two at St-Jean for OCdt's could help (just 3 a year right now).
 
armyrules said:
Kincanucks,
I know that you give good advice so I hope you can help. I handed in my apps on 03-02-05 and I called the recruiting center about 3 weeks ago and the sargeant that in charge of my applications was sick that day so I spoke to a different recruiter and he said that there is a lag in the process because of the RMC applications so he said that I would be able to do my tests in April. I haven't recieved a phine call so do you think that I should call them? I don't want to become a painin the *** though please help!!

Certainly give them another call and they should be able to give you a more approximate time when you can expect to be booked.
 
Thanks kincanucks I wanted to ask you cause you've helped me in the past with questions. So like they say if "it ain't broke don't try to fix it" Thanks again :salute:
 
kin/thirstyson:

from my reading, it would appear that as mentioned in other threads, the biggest issue is one of the interrelation of CFRETS and CFRG (if the acronyms are wrong, my appologies, thats what I remember them as).

Basically.. noone has funding to do the things they want to do. (Side note, "military budget"... does this also include all the salaries for the civilians at DND.. and thus really its the Departmental budget, and not the military budget?)

Kincanucks: Would computerization, such as having an applicant walk in, fill out online forms (with the requisite signature (could even be digitally processed, those are cheap nowadays), the form adiditionally updated with the recruiter, sent over the med, with it all digitally done (with appropriate security, etc)....  Is part of the problem the huge paper trail? Would technology be a good fix for a lot of the bureaucratic slowness?  How does a file get from CFRC to Borden?

I agree, however, that the biggest issue is training spots...  3 courses a year is not a lot of people....  but then, is training actually meeting the demand? Are we turning out the numbers we need to?  What I mean by this is, if we had an unlimited training budget.... would we be hiring that many more people on a constant basis, or woul dit just be a quick catchup period and then we'd be slow recruiting again, but this time because effective strength would be up?

 
Kincanucks: Would computerization, such as having an applicant walk in, fill out online forms (with the requisite signature (could even be digitally processed, those are cheap nowadays), the form adiditionally updated with the recruiter, sent over the med, with it all digitally done (with appropriate security, etc)....  Is part of the problem the huge paper trail? Would technology be a good fix for a lot of the bureaucratic slowness?  How does a file get from CFRC to Borden?

Applicants have the option to fill out the application forms on line now but that isn't the only form required.  We have tried to go paperless for the last three years but every time we get close someone whines that it is hard to assess officer files electronically and they must have a paper copy.  NCM files are not sent anywhere.  We have improved so much electronically in the last couple of years and it is getting better.  As for med files they are sent to Borden via courier and the med world is so paranoid about patient confidentiality that they have vehemently resisting any attempts to send med files electronically.

Recruit training is turning out the required numbers.  It is the trade's schools that are not handling the demand.


 
This probably isn't the right place to ask my question, but I'll ask anyway and hope someone can help me.
What is the average amount of time for a medical to be sent to Borden and passed?
Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Card_11 said:
This probably isn't the right place to ask my question, but I'll ask anyway and hope someone can help me.
What is the average amount of time for a medical to be sent to Borden and passed?
Thanks in advance for any help.

For a clean medical 4-6 weeks.  For issues 4 weeks-????
 
Would it make sense to have some of the information online?

For instance, new applicants could be given a name (s/n?) and password for a secure website once they passed their CFAT: information on the website might include a "checklist" indicating what information was missing or incomplete as well as dates for testing, selection boards, etc.  (might be particularly effective if testing dates are standardized: recruit would see that they have to get docs in by X date to get in Y testing date) ... maybe even allow recruits to sign up for whatever testing or interview dates/times online ... could include an "expected completetion date" for things like medical files (edit: as in the posts immediately preceeeding this!), VFS, etc.

I suggest this because I found myself repeatedly calling the CFRC (and waiting for return calls) asking tedious questions like "did you get this yet," "when do we expect this to happen," etc., etc. which I suspect would be quite time-consuming (when multiplied by the number of applicants).  It also seemed that sometimes it would take 2 or 3 missed voice-mails to get a '2-second answer'.

Just thinking that if some of the simpler stuff could be "automated" (i.e., self-serve) it would free-up the staff for the more complicated things.

My $0.02 ...
 
I_am_John_Galt said:
Would it make sense to have some of the information online?

For instance, new applicants could be given a name (s/n?) and password for a secure website once they passed their CFAT: information on the website might include a "checklist" indicating what information was missing or incomplete as well as dates for testing, selection boards, etc.   (might be particularly effective if testing dates are standardized: recruit would see that they have to get docs in by X date to get in Y testing date) ... maybe even allow recruits to sign up for whatever testing or interview dates/times online ... could include an "expected completetion date" for things like medical files (edit: as in the posts immediately preceeeding this!), VFS, etc.

I suggest this because I found myself repeatedly calling the CFRC (and waiting for return calls) asking tedious questions like "did you get this yet," "when do we expect this to happen," etc., etc. which I suspect would be quite time-consuming (when multiplied by the number of applicants).   It also seemed that sometimes it would take 2 or 3 missed voice-mails to get a '2-second answer'.

Just thinking that if some of the simpler stuff could be "automated" (i.e., self-serve) it would free-up the staff for the more complicated things.

My $0.02 ...

E-Recruiting is a project that is being worked on.
 
kincanucks, thank you for presenting the stats. I was wondering if you could clarify a few points to satisfy my curiosity.

If 10% of applicants take more than a year to be processed (CFAT, Medical 1,2, Medical 3, ERC, PT Test, and MCC Interview), then how is is that only 5% take more than a year to be enrolled?

What is the maximum length of time between "Processed" and "Selection board"? I assume processing can be year-round, but selection boards wouldn't be continuous. This 'gap' would add to the "processed" and "selection board to offer to enrolment" durations for a total time between initiating an application and enrolment.

For Reserve files, does the clock start ticking when a unit delivers a complete applicant file, or only after the CFRC enters the file data into the Recruiting Information Management System? There could be a delay here as system priorities shift between Reg and Res recruiting initiatives and critical timings (like RMC enrolments).


Thank you for you attention to these questions.
 
If 10% of applicants take more than a year to be processed (CFAT, Medical 1,2, Medical 3, ERC, PT Test, and MCC Interview), then how is is that only 5% take more than a year to be enrolled?  The first number was from a sampling of files and the second is from the total number of files enrolled.

What is the maximum length of time between "Processed" and "Selection board"? I assume processing can be year-round, but selection boards wouldn't be continuous. This 'gap' would add to the "processed" and "selection board to offer to enrolment" durations for a total time between initiating an application and enrolment.  That would vary for different entry plans.  NCM could be up to a month, DEO and ROTP up to six months.  That is one of the issues we are looking at too: is whether to spread selection out more to lower wait times from processed to selection board.

For Reserve files, does the clock start ticking when a unit delivers a complete applicant file, or only after the CFRC enters the file data into the Recruiting Information Management System? There could be a delay here as system priorities shift between Reg and Res recruiting initiatives and critical timings (like RMC enrolments)  The clock starts ticking once the file is entered into the system.  Regardless of priorities applicant is entered into the system fairly rapid with maybe a week delay as the longest.
 
No questions, just wanted to thank Kincanucks for his help yet again. Cheers, brother!

 
I too would like to thank kincanucks for the information.   It puts a realistic view on how long my process will actually take.
 
kincanucks said:
E-Recruiting is a project that is being worked on.

Good to hear!!!  I'll stop patting myself on the back for the brilliant suggestion ...

Many thanks!
 
I always knew I was more an exception than the rule when I enrolled in terms of processing time, but I never really understood why.  I walked in the documentation complete to begin enrollment process at CFRC Ottawa in late May 2002.  The following week I was invited to do the aptitude test, interview, medical examination, and physical testing all in one day.  There was a question about visual acuity (my eyes aren't great to begin with, and my eyeglasses prescription at the time was out of date as well).  So on my own time I got an eye exam completed, which CFRC didn't trust.  I was referred to a doctor of their choosing for another eye exam, which I passed with comparable results.  (Oh how I remember the pain of driving home on a motorcycle on a sunny day with no sunglasses and pupils paralyzed at maximum dilation!!  This was all done in the space of about another week.  Then my forms went to Borden for medical review as per standard and was told 4-6 weeks.  I didn't understand that then, and I don't now.  I was applying to the 11Fd Regt in Guelph from CFRC Ottawa (was moving to attend school in Guelph anyways) so I was in close contact with the Recruiting O at the unit through the whole process.  He may have expedited the process in some way, I don't really know how but I know the medical took less than two weeks from the time it left for Borden to the time I got the call to come down and swear in, but I was in Guelph and sworn in on 21st June.  Total time from opening file was less than a month if I recall correctly.  My question to kincanucks (or anyone else who knows), is that a) why does initial processing take as long as it does in some cases, where the candidate is good to go in all respects and qualified; and b) what takes 6 weeks in Borden when the original medical exam took  1/2 an hour?  And how did mine get checked off earlier than that if it DOES take 6 weeks?

 
PatrickM said:
I always knew I was more an exception than the rule when I enrolled in terms of processing time, but I never really understood why.   I walked in the documentation complete to begin enrollment process at CFRC Ottawa in late May 2002.   The following week I was invited to do the aptitude test, interview, medical examination, and physical testing all in one day.   There was a question about visual acuity (my eyes aren't great to begin with, and my eyeglasses prescription at the time was out of date as well).   So on my own time I got an eye exam completed, which CFRC didn't trust.   I was referred to a doctor of their choosing for another eye exam, which I passed with comparable results.   (Oh how I remember the pain of driving home on a motorcycle on a sunny day with no sunglasses and pupils paralyzed at maximum dilation!!   This was all done in the space of about another week.   Then my forms went to Borden for medical review as per standard and was told 4-6 weeks.   I didn't understand that then, and I don't now.   I was applying to the 11Fd Regt in Guelph from CFRC Ottawa (was moving to attend school in Guelph anyways) so I was in close contact with the Recruiting O at the unit through the whole process.   He may have expedited the process in some way, I don't really know how but I know the medical took less than two weeks from the time it left for Borden to the time I got the call to come down and swear in, but I was in Guelph and sworn in on 21st June.   Total time from opening file was less than a month if I recall correctly.   My question to kincanucks (or anyone else who knows), is that a) why does initial processing take as long as it does in some cases, where the candidate is good to go in all respects and qualified; and b) what takes 6 weeks in Borden when the original medical exam took   1/2 an hour?   And how did mine get checked off earlier than that if it DOES take 6 weeks?

If I am to understand your question, why does it take so long in Borden?  The answer:  thousands and thousands of medical files and three people to review them.  Some files do luck out and done faster.  The pile fell over and when they straighten it out yours was now on top?
 
Infanteer said:
How come only three people?

Three people what?

Sorry just realized what your were asking.  There are now five people working there but that is all the medical branch will assign to CFRG.
 
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