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Proper Use of Post-Nominals

Eye In The Sky

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I'm not sure if the CAF 'signature block standard' is the same as the TB one, but it is laid out here in Appendix E: Email Signature Blocks.

Line one: The sender's name, which may include a rank or a designation when the rank or designation is a requirement for the continuation of the performance of the duties of the employee's position.




 

Gunner98

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For DND - Senior Executive Writing Guide - Format for Signature Blocks in Correspondence

Ref: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-1000/1000-3.page
 

Blackadder1916

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Calvillo said:
Hello,

Is it appropriate to use a post-nominal from a private organization in a military setting? I know someone who puts his civilian, private certification on his name. The organization is not even located in Canada and I know that he got that certification on his civilian job. Example is below.

Lt(N)/Ltv John Doe, CD, PMP
Executive Officer, HMCS Whatever


It's in A-AD-200-000/AG-000, The Heritage Structure of the Canadian Forces

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/military-history/history-heritage/heritage-manual/chapter-11.html#11-19
POST-NOMINALS AND CIVIL ACADEMICS

19.  Post-nominals are sets of letters that are displayed after one’s name to denote certain honours, appointments, qualifications, or fellowships. Post-nominals are listed according to a specific order. In the case of foreign honours awarded to CAF members, only appointments to Commonwealth orders carry the right to use post-nominals. Foreigners who use post-nominals should have the use of their titles respected.

20.  DND’s policy is to omit periods in post-nominals; therefore, all outgoing correspondence, official documents and business cards should display the post-nominals without periods. There is no provision in the regulations to denote multiple awards of decorations and therefore having one or several bars does not affect the post-nominal.

21.  DND’s practice is to include only post-nominals related to honours from the Crown and royal appointments; others (such as civil, academic, religious distinctions, and fellowships) are omitted except when the post-nominal denotes a qualification directly pertinent to the correspondence (e.g. medical degree in medical advice documents).

While you didn't detail the type of circumstances in which this officer calls himself a "pimp" (I had to look it up and phonetically used it here as an acronym), in most cases it should be omitted.  I have, on numerous occasions when still serving, seen a number of officers (usually junior), who added a raft of initials to their business cards.  My opinion is that those who do so should also add "SDS*" to their credentials.



*Small Dick Syndrome
 

Rheostatic

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Calvillo said:
The organization is not even located in Canada and I know that he got that certification on his civilian job.
PMI operates in Canada. Also the certification would not have come from his civilian employer, but rather from PMI itself. 

I have met plenty of PMP-certified CAF members, but Blackadder1916 is right, It depends on context. The XO of HMCS Whatever probably has no good reason to identify himself as a PMP in correspondence. If they worked in a project office, that's another story.
 

Crockett

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The one I noticed recently was RMCC being used as a post-nominal. Drives me insane.
 

dapaterson

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Nuggs said:
The one I noticed recently was RMCC being used as a post-nominal. Drives me insane.

...especially since, per the CFOO, the official abbreviation is RMC...

 

Blackadder1916

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Nuggs said:
The one I noticed recently was RMCC being used as a post-nominal. Drives me insane.

Yes, that would be incorrect and irksome.  However. using "rmc" (lowercase only) would be correct for a graduate of that Kingston school.  They even so state on their website. https://www.rmc-cmr.ca/en/registrars-office/rmc-university#rmc

Graduates of the other former military universities can use "rrmc" and "cmr" as the case may be.  Likewise individuals who have completed various commad and staff courses can use "pcsc", "psc", "plsc" and a variety of other lowercase initials.  CFAO 9-48 (if it is still valid) Symbols of Military Qualification was the reference.

The most succinct explanation of why that I've found was from this forum's éminence grise. https://army.ca/forums/threads/34737/post-271647.html#msg271647
 

daftandbarmy

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Blackadder1916 said:
Yes, that would be incorrect and irksome.  However. using "rmc" (lowercase only) would be correct for a graduate of that Kingston school.  They even so state on their website. https://www.rmc-cmr.ca/en/registrars-office/rmc-university#rmc

Graduates of the other former military universities can use "rrmc" and "cmr" as the case may be.  Likewise individuals who have completed various commad and staff courses can use "pcsc", "psc", "plsc" and a variety of other lowercase initials.  CFAO 9-48 (if it is still valid) Symbols of Military Qualification was the reference.

The most succinct explanation of why that I've found was from this forum's éminence grise. https://army.ca/forums/threads/34737/post-271647.html#msg271647

And, for we of the 'short bus' course, 'pmsc' ... which can be made to abbreviate a variety of other amusing phrases :)
 

PPCLI Guy

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Curious.  If a member were to receive a Bar to their MSM, do the post-nominals change?
 

dangerboy

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PPCLI Guy said:
Curious.  If a member were to receive a Bar to their MSM, do the post-nominals change?

It does not look like it. From a publication all about the MSM say this

POST-NOMINALS
15. A recipient of the Cross is entitled to use the letters “M.S.C.” after the name of the
recipient on all occasions when the use of post-nominals is customary.
16. A recipient of the Medal is entitled to use the letters “M.S.M.” after the name of
the recipient on all occasions when the use of post-nominals is customary.

And it has examples of people that have been awarded the bar with the Post-Nominal M.S.M.

http://forces.gc.ca/assets/FORCES_Internet/docs/en/honours-history-medals-chart/meritorious-service-medal.pdf
 

Journeyman

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Blackadder1916 said:
...this forum's éminence grise.
Perhaps he should use that in his signature block;  even if shortened to 'eg' (and mistaken for exempli gratia), he can  be seen as a good example, worthy of emulation.  :)
 

Good2Golf

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PPCLI Guy said:
Curious.  If a member were to receive a Bar to their MSM, do the post-nominals change?

As other mentioned, nope...just like the cringe-worthy mis-use of CD1, CD2, etc. on business cards or in correspondence. :not-again:

Regards
G2G
 

dapaterson

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I think that for the longest serving officer in a unit we need a set of post-nominals.  We can dub them "Senior Officer of the Battalion".
 

Calvillo

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Rheostatic said:
PMI operates in Canada. Also the certification would not have come from his civilian employer, but rather from PMI itself. 

I have met plenty of PMP-certified CAF members, but Blackadder1916 is right, It depends on context. The XO of HMCS Whatever probably has no good reason to identify himself as a PMP in correspondence. If they worked in a project office, that's another story.

While the Project Management Institute has many chapters in all over the world, including Canada, the organization itself is chartered and headquartered in Pennsylvania. As well, the certificate is issued in Pennsylvania.

As for the person in my question, what I meant by he got the certificate from his civilian job instead of the CF was that he was a civilian Project Manager. In the CF, he was not a PM.
 

Navy_Pete

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Calvillo said:
While the Project Management Institute has many chapters in all over the world, including Canada, the organization itself is chartered and headquartered in Pennsylvania. As well, the certificate is issued in Pennsylvania.

As for the person in my question, what I meant by he got the certificate from his civilian job instead of the CF was that he was a civilian Project Manager. In the CF, he was not a PM.

DND also has a set of internal PM qualifications (PMCD). It's based on the PMI structure, but includes specific knowledge of the TB process and other GoC processes that are related to project management so a PMP alone does nothing for you in ADM(Mat).  The PMCD qualification is meaningless outside of DND though, so some people have both.

Personally find that people with a whack of postnominals tend to be kind of knobs. Specific professional ones related to the job at hand are the only ones I pay attention to, and after that have an increasingly negative expectation for everything else tacked on.  When it gets down to a bachelor degree or similar, usually either disregard the person entirely, or assume they will be a speedbump/obstacle to progress.
 

Cloud Cover

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Was QC or KC ever used as postnomials? Harckening back to the CEF in WW1, or the CASF in WW2. I see both Ralston and Rogers were both KC before enlisting ( and Ralston never finished law school before he became KC!).
 

daftandbarmy

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Good2Golf said:
As other mentioned, nope...just like the cringe-worthy mis-use of CD1, CD2, etc. on business cards or in correspondence. :not-again:

Regards
G2G

Which is not allowed.

'Recipients of the Canadian Forces Decoration are entitled to use the post nominal letters "CD". This post-nominal is not affected by the awarding of clasps.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces_Decoration
 

Calvillo

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Ugh, it happens again. The CO of my child's cadet corps just received his CD. Previously he did not put any post-nominal on his signature, but now with his CD his signature becomes:

Lt(N) Joe Public, CD, P.Eng.
Commanding Officer, RCSCC Enterprise
Department of National Defence / Government of Canada
joe.public@cadets.gc.ca / (212) 867-5309

Is the use of 'P.Eng.' acceptable within DND / GoC standards? If not. is this something I should talk to him about or just let it go?
 

garb811

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Calvillo said:
Ugh, it happens again. The CO of my child's cadet corps just received his CD. Previously he did not put any post-nominal on his signature, but now with his CD his signature becomes:

Lt(N) Joe Public, CD, P.Eng.
Commanding Officer, RCSCC Enterprise
Department of National Defence / Government of Canada
joe.public@cadets.gc.ca / (212) 867-5309

Is the use of 'P.Eng.' acceptable within DND / GoC standards? If not. is this something I should talk to him about or just let it go?
No, he shouldn't be. Should you talk to him about it? That really should be coming from his CoC not a parent.

A-DH-200-000/AG-000 - THE HERITAGE STRUCTURE OF THE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES
POST-NOMINALS AND CIVIL ACADEMICS

19.Post-nominals are sets of letters that are displayed after one’s name to denote certain honours, appointments, qualifications, or fellowships. Post-nominals are listed according to a specific order. In the case of foreign honours awarded to CAF members, only appointments to Commonwealth orders carry the right to use post-nominals. Foreigners who use post-nominals should have the use of their titles respected.

20.DND’s policy is to omit periods in post-nominals; therefore, all outgoing correspondence, official documents and business cards should display the post-nominals without periods. There is no provision in the regulations to denote multiple awards of decorations and therefore having one or several bars does not affect the post-nominal.

21.DND’s practice is to include only post-nominals related to honours from the Crown and royal appointments; others  (such  as  civil,  academic,  religious  distinctions,  and  fellowships)  are  omitted  except  when  the  post-nominal denotes a qualification directly pertinent to the correspondence (e.g. medical degree in medical advice documents).
 

Jonezy76

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21.DND’s practice is to include only post-nominals related to honours from the Crown and royal appointments; others  (such  as  civil,  academic,  religious  distinctions,  and  fellowships)  are  omitted  except  when  the  post-nominal denotes a qualification directly pertinent to the correspondence (e.g. medical degree in medical advice documents).

So, as an example, one would only use the P.Eng. post-nominal when the correspondence had something to do with engineering?

Similarly, using RSE only when the subject matter applies to your field of expertise, correct?
 
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