"Re-Royalization", "Re-Britification" and the Heritage Transformation

[jpjohnsn]

Okay, waste of money... yes, absolutely, no arguments from me on that point. 

However, based on the tiny amount of info in the minutes, I don't understand what the intentions are with changes to the RCAF rank.  The LAC props sound retro but "aviator" is not the historical rank name - not even close.  Aviateur, I believe, is the former translation for aircraftman but the the AC1 and AC2s were "no-hook privates".  LEADING aircraftmen had the propellers.  The worst-case, gender-neutral, politically correct and immensely stupid scenario should be the leading aviators wearing props on their sleeve.

The "pearl grey" reference is also a bit confusing.  Last generation, pre-unification RCAF OR insignia was, basically, identical to what the air cadets wear now - and that is white (they called it silver-white back in the day).  Pearl white is quite a bit grey-er.  If they stayed with the proper colour, LOGISTIK already produces the propeller insignia for the cadets.  Hell, Logistik already produces the entire old-school RCAF OR insignia set (plus a MCpl equivalent badge) for the air cadets already.  It would be dirt-cheap solution if they wanted to ditch the maple leaves and bring back the crowns.  >

Officer braid, as eliminator posted, was wedgewood blue on midnight blue.  The fact that the only name-change mentioned was for private/aviator is curious too.

With all of the changes to the RCN and CA, this doesn't make any sense to me as it doesn't sound like a return to historical ranks in the slightest. 

The comment about whether shoulder and other insignia would have to change colour too is a great point - they would have to - but the last generation, old-school RCAF buttons were gold Sta-Brite not silver.  The current buttons are perfect the way they are.

I wonder if the old-style RCAF wings are poised to make a comeback too.  ???

 

[George Wallace]

Who knows what lurks in the minds of men?
















The Shadow knows.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

However, based on the tiny amount of info in the minutes, I don't understand what the intentions are with changes to the RCAF rank.

It is actually pretty simple.  From the now-removed Para 11.

11.  RCAF rep briefed on the changes to the RCAF rank and nomenclature changes approved by the XXXX.  All insignia will be changed from gold to pearl grey.  Pte rank will be changed to "aviator" with a propeller replacing the chevron for Pte(T).  Chair requested RCAF to review the proposal to have general officers wear both shoulder rank and rank braid on the sleeves of the service dress jacket.  Target date for implementation is to be determined. 

The LAC props sound retro but "aviator" is not the historical rank name - not even close.  Aviateur, I believe, is the former translation for aircraftman but the the AC1 and AC2s were "no-hook privates".  LEADING aircraftmen had the propellers.  The worst-case, gender-neutral, politically correct and immensely stupid scenario should be the leading aviators wearing props on their sleeve.

The prop is what was worn pre-unification;  my Dad has a picture from the late 50's with one on his sleeve (was an Airframe Tech at the time).

The "pearl grey" reference is also a bit confusing.  Last generation, pre-unification RCAF OR insignia was, basically, identical to what the air cadets wear now - and that is white (they called it silver-white back in the day).  Pearl white is quite a bit grey-er.  If they stayed with the proper colour, LOGISTIK already produces the propeller insignia for the cadets.  Hell, Logistik already produces the entire old-school RCAF OR insignia set (plus a MCpl equivalent badge) for the air cadets already.  It would be dirt-cheap solution if they wanted to ditch the maple leaves and bring back the crowns.

And nothing says anything anywhere about returning to pre-unification ranks;  the RCN didn't either with the return of the Executive Curl (which started this whole thing IMO).

I wonder if the old-style RCAF wings are poised to make a comeback too.  ???

Our briefing on this was "no".  Only the color of the current stuff will change.  I wouldn't be surprised if Officer rank slips on go similar to the RAF ones.

But, none of this adds any real value to anything we do where I work so, hopefully this will go away.  Use the money to put stuff in the bins at Supply for stuff we really need to do our business.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Use the money to put stuff in the bins at Supply for stuff we really need to do our business.

QFTT

 

[Loachman]

I wonder if the old-style RCAF wings are poised to make a comeback too.  ???

Then the leaf in the middle would have to be replaced in both official languages with RCAF/ARC in very tiny letters. There is no need to layer on more assininity.

Although I'd not care about that so much if the Tac Hel and MH communities got their old wings back too.

 

[jpjohnsn]

It is actually pretty simple.  From the now-removed Para 11.

11.  RCAF rep briefed on the changes to the RCAF rank and nomenclature changes approved by the XXXX.  All insignia will be changed from gold to pearl grey.  Pte rank will be changed to "aviator" with a propeller replacing the chevron for Pte(T).  Chair requested RCAF to review the proposal to have general officers wear both shoulder rank and rank braid on the sleeves of the service dress jacket.  Target date for implementation is to be determined. 

The prop is what was worn pre-unification;  my Dad has a picture from the late 50's with one on his sleeve (was an Airframe Tech at the time).

And nothing says anything anywhere about returning to pre-unification ranks;  the RCN didn't either with the return of the Executive Curl (which started this whole thing IMO).

Our briefing on this was "no".  Only the color of the current stuff will change.  I wouldn't be surprised if Officer rank slips on go similar to the RAF ones.

But, none of this adds any real value to anything we do where I work so, hopefully this will go away.  Use the money to put stuff in the bins at Supply for stuff we really need to do our business.

My fault, I don't think I made my point very well.  What I was trying to says is that if we're going retro, let's go retro.  If we aren't going retro, don't do anything that requires spending one thin dime.

Both the navy and army struck some kind of balance between retaining some of the current names/insignia and adopting (or adapting) historical ones.  The current exercise with the RCAF, other than bringing back the LAC (sorry, *aviator* props), seems to be following up by creating things that aren't based on the customs and traditions of either incarnation of the RCAF. 

If it's possible, it's actually a worse waste of money than pips and crowns and executive curls.  At least their's has some kind of justification - however slight.  As it stands now, the RCAF change has none at all.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Ahh I see what you are saying now, and agree. 

 

[Loachman]

My fault, I don't think I made my point very well.  What I was trying to says is that if we're going retro, let's go retro.  If we aren't going retro, don't do anything that requires spending one thin dime.

If the CF was driving this whole exercise, then there might be a little more logic to it (like not bothering in the first place), but it isn't, so there isn't.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I heard from my boss that Army Officers are to change to their new ranks sometime before the start of the 100th anniversary of WW1, 5 August.  I gathered from reading the posts here that the new ranks will be available through Logistiks.

Cheers

I understand that it's all been pushed back to the Fall. No surprises there....

 

[McG]

I understand that it's all been pushed back to the Fall. No surprises there....

Indeed not.  Once the new jackets arrive via currier to all officers' homes, it will still be a few months for the tailor shops to attach new brigade patches, skill hazard badges, PPCLI tabs, and other sew-on bits that can be found on army uniforms.

 

[Old EO Tech]

The Patricia's all have their uniforms in now for the Div Patch, and all officers will have their pips on their new tunics as well, before the 100th.  So no delays here....just a lot of sewing and pinning....

 

[jranrose]

Somewhat related to this forum. Not only is it Canadian’s that are bringing back commonwealth insignias so are the New Zealanders with bringing back knighthoods and Australia bringing back knighthoods and considering bringing back the Commonwealths honours system including the George Cross, Military Cross… etc.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/newzealand/4957283/New-Zealand-restores-Knights-and-Dames-to-the-top-of-its-honours-system.html
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-reintroduces-knight-and-dame-honours-for-australians-20140325-35fzo.html
http://www.news.com.au/national/prime-minister-tony-abbott-backs-return-to-the-days-of-knights-with-british-honours-system/story-fncynjr2-1226864799471
http://www.news.com.au/national/australian-war-heroes-back-tony-abbotts-plans-for-return-to-traditional-medals-for-galantry/story-fncynjr2-1226865886822

 

[my72jeep]

Any one have a copy of the new dress regs, with regards to the wearing of the slipons? my new ones arrived from Logistik with CANADA on them not CIC. When I called Logistik they had no idea what I was talking about. I ask this as my Cadpat ones came with CIC on them.

 

[MilEME09]

Any one have a copy of the new dress regs, with regards to the wearing of the slipons? my new ones arrived from Logistik with CANADA on them not CIC. When I called Logistik they had no idea what I was talking about. I ask this as my Cadpat ones came with CIC on them.

From what I've heard is that Canada is the defult one thats been shipped in the first batch and individual units then place orders based on their numbers for how many they need with what ever unit on the bottom of them.

 

[Mr. St-Cyr]

You can have a CIC tab sewn on. Same thing as the old slip ons.

 

[my72jeep]

Ok makes sense.

 

[Navy_Pete]

My fault, I don't think I made my point very well.  What I was trying to says is that if we're going retro, let's go retro.  If we aren't going retro, don't do anything that requires spending one thin dime.

Both the navy and army struck some kind of balance between retaining some of the current names/insignia and adopting (or adapting) historical ones.  The current exercise with the RCAF, other than bringing back the LAC (sorry, *aviator* props), seems to be following up by creating things that aren't based on the customs and traditions of either incarnation of the RCAF. 

If it's possible, it's actually a worse waste of money than pips and crowns and executive curls.  At least their's has some kind of justification - however slight.  As it stands now, the RCAF change has none at all.

For the record, there are lots of folks in the Navy that think the executive curl was a waste of money.  The only plus side was that it was still recognizable as the same rank, whereas the army one is a bit more involved.  However, I would have preferred the same money to go towards fuel and rations for sea days, or parts for the bins, but that's just me. :2c:

 

[JRBond]

Has anyone gotten a solid answer on when we're supposed to put up the new ranks?

 

[McG]

Newest SITREP came out last week.  General Officers will switch in Sept.  Everyone else will continue waiting for the direction sometime later this fall.

 

[Old EO Tech]

Has anyone gotten a solid answer on when we're supposed to put up the new ranks?

The word on the last SITREP was "on order" with sometime this fall as the official kickoff.  I know as part of the 100th, all PPCLI officers of all capbadges have been ordered to don them for the 100th, this week.