"Re-Royalization", "Re-Britification" and the Heritage Transformation

[OldSolduer]

Is his name Dennis? The peasant that is…

 

[Kat Stevens]

Is his name Dennis? The peasant that is…

Nope, it's Patsy.

 

[OldSolduer]

Nope, it's Patsy.

Right!!! Dennis is the old woman

 

[dimsum]

the only thing changing is the thread colour on the CAG slip on. Pearl grey instead of blue. The RCAF CWO EA had one on when they were at our Wing recently.

I'm just wondering how different it looks than the Army high-vis one, aside from being on olive green rather than CADPAT background.

 

[Maxman1]

So he did decide to go with the Tutor crown. I think the Monarchy of Canada should stick with the current one (St. Edward's Crown) just because it looks better. Or maybe we could adopt the Scottish crown (you know.....Nova Scotia - wink, wink).

Which is funny, because the current St. Edward's Crown was made for Charles II.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'm just wondering how different it looks than the Army high-vis one, aside from being on olive green rather than CADPAT background.

From a distance, it looked the exact same. I was about 70’ away or so.

 

[torg003]

Which is funny, because the current St. Edward's Crown was made for Charles II.

Yes, it seems strange that Charles would change the crown, you'd think he'd want to continue his mother's legacy. I suppose he's trying to show his reign is a continuation of his grandfather's (and grandfather's grandfather, etc.).
I think the economic aspect of changing the design of the crown is the most important thing right now to Canada. We should keep the current design because we really don't need the considerable expense to change over to the new (old) one. People will argue that we have to change the royal cypher anyway, so what's the problem? Of course, most people don't think about (or even care) about the effect on the military. It would mean we'd have to redo all the crests/emblems (CAF, element., corps, regiment, as well as the army officer ranks.
Maybe everyone here should contact the GG and the PM to share the opinion that we don't need to waste money changing the crown here in Canada. The Monarchy of Canada can have its own identity separate from the British monarchy.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Maybe everyone here should contact the GG and the PM to share the opinion that we don't need to waste money changing the crown here in Canada. The Monarchy of Canada can have its own identity separate from the British monarchy.

 

[FSTO]

Yes, it seems strange that Charles would change the crown, you'd think he'd want to continue his mother's legacy. I suppose he's trying to show his reign is a continuation of his grandfather's (and grandfather's grandfather, etc.).
I think the economic aspect of changing the design of the crown is the most important thing right now to Canada. We should keep the current design because we really don't need the considerable expense to change over to the new (old) one. People will argue that we have to change the royal cypher anyway, so what's the problem? Of course, most people don't think about (or even care) about the effect on the military. It would mean we'd have to redo all the crests/emblems (CAF, element., corps, regiment, as well as the army officer ranks.
Maybe everyone here should contact the GG and the PM to share the opinion that we don't need to waste money changing the crown here in Canada. The Monarchy of Canada can have its own identity separate from the British monarchy.

I read that in the UK there are many Mail Boxes (for example) that still have George V on it. So they update the boxes with the new crowns as they need replacing.

I can see the potentially the same thing here. As things wear out or if you are promoted you get the new crown. Just spitballing.

 

[dapaterson]

Are you trying to give every CPO1 / CWO an aneurysm?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Are you trying to give every CPO1 / CWO an aneurysm?

 

[torg003]

I read that in the UK there are many Mail Boxes (for example) that still have George V on it. So they update the boxes with the new crowns as they need replacing.

I can see the potentially the same thing here. As things wear out or if you are promoted you get the new crown. Just spitballing.

Yes, but many government agencies use the crown in their emblem (not to forget the actual coat of arms of Canada and the provinces). These all would have to be updated as well. The military and police forces would be affected the most, having not only to change a crest, but rank insignia and hat badges as well. I doubt that the crown will only get replaced when people get promoted. It may not happen overnight, and not everything at the same time, but there has to be consistency to doing it, not a half-assed approach.

 

[FSTO]

Are you trying to give every CPO1 / CWO an aneurysm?

Maybe...................but realistically there isn't that much of a difference between the crowns that folks will notice.

 

[tomydoom]

Are you trying to give every CPO1 / CWO an aneurysm?

I have no doubt someone will have dug up his/her grandfathers capbadge and worn it to work, just to be “like that”.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Yes, but many government agencies use the crown in their emblem (not to forget the actual coat of arms of Canada and the provinces). These all would have to be updated as well. . . .

The Canadian Heraldic Authority (CHA) is the government service that creates coats of arms, flags and badges. Many of the symbols of the military and other government organizations were created (sometimes haphazardly) prior to 1988 when the CHA was established following the Letters Patent granting the Governor General authorization to exercise the Sovereign's power related to heraldry, however, since then there has been a Canadian based mechanism to determine what our symbols should be. In simple terms, it's the GG who decides what a Canadian badge looks like. Well, maybe not so simple, but the "Royal Crown proper"* has already been defined in Canada. Canada is in a different situation than Scotland (Charles has a separate and distinct cypher for Scotland using the Scottish Crown) in that there is no unique "Canadian Crown" (i.e., a physical item not the constitutional concept) upon which to model a crown as an heraldic element. But, that does preclude the King's Privy Council for Canada from advising him that he should prefer the continued use of the St. Edward's crown in Canada. Even so, it should be noted that the Canadian Coat of Arms was not changed to incorporate the St. Edward's crown until 1957, five years after Her late Majesty's accession to the throne.


* The description according to A-AD-200-000/AG-000 The Heritage Structure of the Canadian Forces - Royal crown. Heraldic emblem based on the St. Edward’s (coronation) Crown. It is a symbol of sovereignty, authority and prestige. Permission to use the Royal crown, on its own or as part of another emblem, is the sole prerogative of the Sovereign. Permission is sought through the Canadian Heraldic Authority (couronne royale).

 

[torg003]

Yes, I'm well aware of the Canadian Heraldic Authority. Canda can just do nothing and keep using the crown design we have now (which is a good idea). I'm just worried about the people that don't know shit about the monarchy here in Canada (thinking it's the "British" monarchy) and start asking the gov't when they're going to change over the crown to the "new" one. Politicians may decide that it's what the public wants and go ahead with the change.

 

[torg003]

Yes, I'm well aware of the Canadian Heraldic Authority. Canda can just do nothing and keep using the crown design we have now (which is a good idea). I'm just worried about the people that don't know shit about the monarchy here in Canada (thinking it's the "British" monarchy) and start asking the gov't when they're going to change over the crown to the "new" one. Politicians may decide that it's what the public wants and go ahead with the change.

 

[FJAG]

I have no doubt someone will have dug up his/her grandfathers capbadge and worn it to work, just to be “like that”.

I never liked that crown on the old cap badge. Luckily they'd all been relegated to museums by the time I joined.

😟

 

[tomydoom]

I never liked that crown on the old cap badge. Luckily they'd all been relegated to museums by the time I joined.

😟

According to the heritage section of the RCA website, the capbadge wasn’t changed until 1960 last time. So, the current pattern may outlive the current monarch.

 

[torg003]

As far as the type of crown goes, that's up to the Gov't of Canada to decide.
I'll just throw something else out there. I wonder if the CAF should bring back the ranks of Field Marshal, Marshal of the RCAF, and Admiral of the Fleet. I remember that former Prince Charles at times used to wear a CF uniform with the rank of LtGen/VAdm (depending on uniform) at Remembrance Day ceremonies (in Canada). I think that King Charles III in his role as head of the CAF might want to wear a military uniform on certain occasions and it would seem fitting that he would use those former ceremonial ranks I mentioned above. He may not decide to wear a uniform during his role as King of Canada, but the ceremonial ranks should be reinstated just in case he decides to do so.