Really Cool Fitness Initiative

[scaddie]

My unit (I believe it's only my unit, I'm unsure though) just introduced a new fitness initiative to encourage our members to get into better shape.

For every five hours of physical activity (ie; running, rucksack march, weight lifting) you receive half of a days pay. We're required to fill out forms, and include a witness signature for each hour, which is understandable. I was told our CO thought of the idea, but I'm wondering if other units are trying the same type of program. It'll be really interesting to see the results of this, hopefully people don't abuse the system.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Interesting.  A few questions though.

1.  Are there criteria/limitations for the location, type of activity, and witness?
2.  Does your CO have approval for this from higher?
3.  Has the CO already certified for payment to anyone?
4.  Is this CO still commanding?
5.  Has he or anyone else been arrested yet?

I applaud your CO's desire to increase the fitness level of his unit, however, (IIRC) when I was in a reserve unit, authorizing pay in this manner was not permitted, even if there was the budget available.

 

[orange.paint]

Before I begin I will just say I am really pleased to see the reserve force applying initiatives to improve a problem that has plagued the CF in general.

I do however see this as a corrupt system as you have explained it very vaguely.I personally see this working for a select few,while others who need a bit of pocket money "witness" each other working out for a few dollars for the weekend.Or does it have to be a senior officer who witnesses it.I see the problem arising where Sgt bloggind and cpl bloger attend assneck university together and write each other off.Corruption waiting to happen.

Also,as a member who puts in 3 hours plus a day outside of work I'm wondering where my extra days pay is.Jealously?Perhaps.But as a member of the CF should I not also receive monetary gains where others are receiving?

My third question is where are these funds coming from?As you said you believe this is only your unit taking part in this.I have been off for 10 weeks so I cannot say if this is taking place in the regular force.

I understand reserve units usually don't have access to base gyms and PSP staff.But I do believe if this is taking place it has to be closely administered.I also believe this should be available to all CF personell.Because right now I'm looking at if I went to the gym for 5 hrs in the morning and went on a 30 km ruck in the afternoon I could get two days pay per day! So why even go regular force?

Also is there a cap on how much you can do a week?Your post was kind of lacking in the detail department so I'll wait to rant until we can clarify some of this.

 

[Blunt Object]

It does sound like a good idea but I think it's kind of rediculous that it has resorted to almost bribing people to stay in shape, it's required as part of the job and life style. If there is going to be some sort of restitution for being in shape maybe they should hold fitness tests on a regular basis and offer some "gucci" kit or something of the sort once in a while for the top preformers.

  Thats just my 2 cents.

 

[dglad]

An interesting idea, but as has been pointed out, one that requires a fair bit of due diligence to ensure that resources are being managed properly.

Actually, I've always seen this as relatively simple (my poor infantry brain, you know).  The only reason that fitness is important is so that members can do their jobs.  If they can't, then a performance issue exists.  If Cpl Bloggins can have the C6 where I want on the battlefield, when I want it there, and operate it effectively once it is, then he is doing his job.  Implicit in this is that he's "fit", not to mention that he can effectively operate a C6, knows his drills, how to engage targets, etc.  If, on the other hand, he collapses into a quivering heap 100m past the LD or, somewhat less extreme, can't get the gun into a fire position when it's needed there, or is too bagged to do anything with it when he does, then there's a problem with job performance.  A poor level of fitness might be the CAUSE, but the ISSUE is performance.  At that point, Bloggins is subject to administrative action intended to get him to correct his inadequate performance or, at the extreme, cause him to be released from the CF.  Such correction may involve getting fit, and there may be things the CF can do to assist, but the onus will be on Bloggins himself.

The implication is that members must be fit simply as a pre-requisite to do their jobs.  It's a truism that class A Reservists may suffer a handicap in not having fitness facilities readily available, but it's hardly insurmountable; one can quite easily stay reasonably fit without a membership to some gym or fitness centre.  It takes some additional effort for which there currently may not be compensation (and don't get me wrong, I'm all for finding some sort of formal way of compensating class A soldiers for fitness training).  But lack of such compensation should hardly constitute an excuse for not being adequately fit for one's job. 

 

[orange.paint]

Yep we all understand why fitness is important etc. That isnt the point.
The point is
A reserve unit may/or may not be paying their troops to workout.(5 hrs=1 day pay)

Who else is getting it?
Where are the funds coming from?
How they heck can they regulate this?
Where do I get the paperwork to start making twice the pay?

 

[Haggis]

If there is going to be some sort of restitution for being in shape maybe they should hold fitness tests on a regular basis and offer some "gucci" kit or something of the sort once in a while for the top preformers.

I did exactly that in my Rifle Company.  Worked like a charm to the point that I'm doing it again this year.

 

[Centurian1985]

My unit (I believe it's only my unit, I'm unsure though) just introduced a new fitness initiative to encourage our members to get into better shape.

For every five hours of physical activity (ie; running, rucksack march, weight lifting) you receive half of a days pay. We're required to fill out forms, and include a witness signature for each hour, which is understandable. I was told our CO thought of the idea, but I'm wondering if other units are trying the same type of program. It'll be really interesting to see the results of this, hopefully people don't abuse the system.

Where was that when I was still in!!? A could clear a couple extra days pay every month with that type of perk...  Otherwise, never heard of that type of incentive program before.

 

[Blunt Object]

This is a little off topic of the thread but can reservists claim a gym pass ( such as the YMCA, Family fitness etc...) on their taxes?? I've been informed we can write off things like razors or insoles so would it not be the same for a gym pass to make it more feasible for reservists to get to the gym?

 

[pylon]

Also,as a member who puts in 3 hours plus a day outside of work I'm wondering where my extra days pay is.Jealously?Perhaps.But as a member of the CF should I not also receive monetary gains where others are receiving?

You're right, class A reservists get all the perks....  bastards.   :blotto:

 

[dglad]

Yep we all understand why fitness is important etc. That isnt the point.
The point is
A reserve unit may/or may not be paying their troops to workout.(5 hrs=1 day pay)

Who else is getting it?
Where are the funds coming from?
How they heck can they regulate this?
Where do I get the paperwork to start making twice the pay?

No, that's precisely the point.  It shouldn't be necessary to resort to measures like this, which , as you allude, are just problems waiting to happen (as you say, "how the heck can they regulate this?").  If soldiers are going to get compensation for fitness training, it should be done consistently, fairly and with all the appropriate checks and balances.  Otherwise, it risks becoming a misuse of public funds and resources.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Before I begin I will just say I am really pleased to see the reserve force applying initiatives to improve a problem that has plagued the CF in general.

+1

I do however see this as a corrupt system as you have explained it very vaguely.I personally see this working for a select few,while others who need a bit of pocket money "witness" each other working out for a few dollars for the weekend.Or does it have to be a senior officer who witnesses it.I see the problem arising where Sgt bloggind and cpl bloger attend assneck university together and write each other off.Corruption waiting to happen.

Nothing is perfect, and something is better than nothing.  Dishonest people are dishonest, but you can't use that as a realistic reason to stop it for everyone can you?  How would that apply to say, the ranges?  "Well sir, one of the troops might steal live ammo from the range, so I think we shouldn't take live ammo.  Someone might be dishonest and take some."  If they sign on a goverment document for monies they are not entitled to and get caught, there is a charge under the NDA they can be nailed with.  

Also,as a member who puts in 3 hours plus a day outside of work I'm wondering where my extra days pay is.Jealously?Perhaps.But as a member of the CF should I not also receive monetary gains where others are receiving?

You do.  Its called your monthly salary I think.  And the other benefits a Reg Frce member has over Reserve Frce members. 

My third question is where are these funds coming from?As you said you believe this is only your unit taking part in this.I have been off for 10 weeks so I cannot say if this is taking place in the regular force.

If it is just his unit, I would say his CO is using the funds from his budget.  I think Reserve Units are funded based on their unit strength and roughly 32 days pay for each person on strength.  Something like that.  Aside from Mandated trng, the CO has the say over where/when his/her funds are expended.

I understand reserve units usually don't have access to base gyms and PSP staff.But I do believe if this is taking place it has to be closely administered.I also believe this should be available to all CF personell.Because right now I'm looking at if I went to the gym for 5 hrs in the morning and went on a 30 km ruck in the afternoon I could get two days pay per day! So why even go regular force?

You know full well that as a Reg Frce member you are paid 24/7, and Reservists on Class A are not.  As far was your last comment, heck all you have to do is CT to the Reserve Force, to the originators Reserve unit and you too can have this outstanding benefit.  

Let's not let this degrade into a Reserve-Reg Force nit-picking thread.  It will get locked before you can say MODS.  Remember if you want to come to the table with a problem, its preferable to bring a solution or two along with you.   ;D

It appears that a CO of a Reserve Unit is doing something to encourage physical fitness in his/her soldiers, and I think that is a good thing.  Its really that simple if you want to let it be...

my 2 cents..

MRM

 

[orange.paint]

+1
Nothing is perfect, and something is better than nothing.  Dishonest people are dishonest, but you can't use that as a realistic reason to stop it for everyone can you?  How would that apply to say, the ranges?  "Well sir, one of the troops might steal live ammo from the range, so I think we shouldn't take live ammo.  Someone might be dishonest and take some."  If they sign on a government document for monies they are not entitled to and get caught, there is a charge under the NDA they can be nailed with.  
You do.  Its called your monthly salary I think.  And the other benefits a Reg Frce member has over Reserve Frce members. 

I disagree.Troops going to a range are under supervision of the RSO and down to the ARSO's on the mound.They are supervised and warned at the end of this activity that "taking live ammo from the range....service offence.. etc."I'm not throwing a knife at our reserve guys I'm basically throwing it at humanity in general.I know that if this was implemented in regular force units Cpl fatty and SGT bellyman would be bringing in the free bucks.Humans like free stuff period.And why work for something when you can get it for free?That's humanity.

As for my monthly salary I agree.I am paid by the people of Canada to keep fit and defend this country with my peers.However I do usually work out on my own time not during the army's time.My basic peeve is that unless there is a cap on these funds (i.e 1 hr a day for 5 days) a member who is active in a hobby like mine of marathons etc can make a days pay without ever donning the green suit.

. Let's not let this degrade into a Reserve-Reg Force nit-picking thread.  It will get locked before you can say MODS.  Remember if you want to come to the table with a problem, its preferable to bring a solution or two along with you.  

The reason I didn't bring a solution was from the lack of information posted by the original guy.My solution would be:

Everyday at a certain time (concensus needed to find when most people can attend) LT/CAPT stands outside designated armouries and takes roll call.People work out for 1 hr,supervised and get paid.

Theres also that problem with class A guys getting compensation when working out alone.So there is my idea to solve this.

It all sounds a little weird to me,more info needed.

 

[orange.paint]

No, that's precisely the point.  It shouldn't be necessary to resort to measures like this, which , as you allude, are just problems waiting to happen (as you say, "how the heck can they regulate this?").  If soldiers are going to get compensation for fitness training, it should be done consistently, fairly and with all the appropriate checks and balances.  Otherwise, it risks becoming a misuse of public funds and resources.

+1

 

[17thRecceSgt]

It all sounds a little weird to me,more info needed.

Agreed, and FWIW, I don't think its perfect, or maybe even practical, and there is lots of room for misuse, but I do applaud the CO who is trying to do something.

One small point.  IF Sgt Fatty was signing for all this pay, and not getting in shape, wouldn't it be obvious? 

Good point on the cap, there should be a "to a maximum of" or some other control measure in place, maybe there is.

I still like the idea that something is being done, its a step in the right direction.  I know in our Bde, you can't order a Class A reservist to do the EXPRES test, but a reservist can not be put on ANY Class B employment until such time as they DO complete the EXPRES.  Its not perfect, but its what our Cmdr can do at this time.

MRM

 

[scoutfinch]

The reason I didn't bring a solution was from the lack of information posted by the original guy.My solution would be:

Everyday at a certain time (concensus needed to find when most people can attend) LT/CAPT stands outside designated armouries and takes roll call.People work out for 1 hr,supervised and get paid.

While you won't find a more ardent supporter of organized fitness for reservists, the problem with the approach quoted above is liability.  If a reservist injures him/herself while doing PT, they may well be putting their civilian livelihood at risk and the CF would be left holding the bag for their financial losses as well as rehabilitation expense (for which reservists do not have an insurance programme or DND health care)..  Moreover, there is a greater risk for the CF to be entertaining pensionable injury claims should reservists be conducting PT without trained supervisors.  Most important is the fact that the *once per week fitness regime* has a potential for injury as members aren't always as fit as they should be... 

The PT issue is one of risk management for the CF.  Unfortunately, too many reservists take the *PT on your own time* as *PT at no time*. 

As an aside, can you imagine completing Basic Training without any PT??? Well, due to the new policies, I did!  I am lucky as I am a runner in my civie life but I can say with certainty that the lack of PT reflected on a number of reservists' performance on CAP this summer.  That being said, there were a few that were in OUTSTANDING shape but they certainly weren't the majority.

 

[orange.paint]

Moreover, there is a greater risk for the CF to be entertaining pensionable injury claims should reservists be conducting PT without trained supervisors. 

Although I know reserves sometimes don't take mod 1 PLQ which is PT instruction,Im sure there are plenty of qualified guys in the reserve.I know on my mod 2-5 which was militia run in Nova Scotia the crse warrant and officer done PT with us every morning.(I did however put on 10 pounds.)

As an aside, can you imagine completing Basic Training without any PT??? Well, due to the new policies, I did!  I am lucky as I am a runner in my civie life but I can say with certainty that the lack of PT reflected on a number of reservists' performance on CAP this summer.  That being said, there were a few that were in OUTSTANDING shape but they certainly weren't the majority.

Thats amasing.Absolutely amasing. :
(not directed at yourself just at "policies")

Now if I understand correctly your Basic Training was a reserve course.Where you could have been supervised for PT every morning.
How the heck could your course not do PT while this regiment in Nova Scotia is paying pers to work out in their off time!!!

Im totally lost,does this make sense to anyone else?

 

[Trinity]

  Unfortunately, too many reservists take the *PT on your own time* as *PT at no time*. 

HEY... I resemble that remark!!!  :

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I spent the summer of 2001 in Aldershot as Crse WO for the Res Armd QL3.

No word of a lie, we were NOT allowed to run during PT.  

AND...

before the troops showed up, one of the Inf crse staff complete went for a run one morning.

The young Lt got 17 extras.

:

We did, however, form up in Battalion in Mass before going for our 15 minute walk.

Thats the worst I have ever seen it.

But I digress.

In line with your question, no it makes no sense.  None at all.

I think things are changing, people are taking some measures to get their soldiers fit, and sooner or later, its bound to lead to some improvement.  I hope.

 

[paracowboy]

Hey, Reservists, would this work? Just run a PT test every month. Something basic and simple, like the Para PT test. You pass, you get this extra money that's getting tossed around. You fail, you get beasted for an hour. And it's mandatory. Everybody in the unit has to do it once a month.

To make sure it's not being played with, it gets run by Reg Force pers. There would be volunteers. That I can guarantee. A chance to laugh at fatties, and beast people? There'd be volunteers.