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REG VS RES NCM INF PAY

expeditionary

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Hi guys!

I'm getting into the Infantry, though can't make the call between REGULAR VS RESERVE FORCE.

A little help: Crucial missing information in my analysis is the deductions that'd be made in the form of rations+quarters and/or additional danger pay such as tours.

What I need help dissecting here is this question: What's my take away at the end of each month? So they're two cases here:


1) REG FORCE - THREE (3) YEAR VIE

REG - YEAR/INCREMENT 1
Monthly = $2,806
Yearly = $2,806 x 12 months = $33,672
Taxes = $4,554
After Tax Yearly Income = $29,118
After Tax Monthly Income = $29,118 / 12 months = $2,426.5

REG - YEAR/INCREMENT 2
Monthly = $3,430
Yearly = $3,430 x 12 months = $41,160
Taxes = $6,066
After Tax Yearly Income = $35,094
After Tax Monthly Income = $35,094 / 12 months = $2,924.5

REG - YEAR/INCREMENT 3
Monthly = $4,120
Yearly = $4,120 x 12 months = $49,440
Taxes = $8,397
After Tax Yearly Income = $41,043
After Tax Monthly Income = $41,043 / 12 months = $3,420.5

2) RES FORCE - THREE (3) YEAR INVOLVEMENT

RES - YEAR/INCREMENT 1
Daily = $90.30
Half Daily = $45.15

Evening Weekly Parade = $45.15 x 44 = $1,986.6
Weekend Parade = $180.6 x 10 = $1,806
Summer Course = $90.30 x 60 = $5,418
Yearly = $9,210 (5,418+1,806+1,986)
Taxes = $0.00
After Tax Yearly Income = $9,210
After Tax Monthly Income = $9,210 / 12 months = $767.7

RES - YEAR/INCREMENT 2
Daily = $102.32
Half Daily = $51.16

Evening Weekly Parade = $51.16 x 44 = $2,251.04
Weekend Parade = $204.64 x 10 = $2,046.4
Summer Course = $102.32 x 60 = $6,139.2
Yearly = $10,436 (2,251.04+2,046.4+6,139.2)
Taxes = $29
After Tax Yearly Income = $10,407
After Tax Monthly Income = $10,436 / 12 months = $867.25

RES - YEAR/INCREMENT 3
Daily = $115.14
Half Daily = $57.57

Evening Weekly Parade = $57.57 x 44 = $2,533.08
Weekend Parade = $230.28 x 10 = $2,302.8
Summer Course = $115.14 x 60 = $6,908.4
Yearly = $11,744.28 (2,533.08+2,302.8+6,908.4)
Taxes = $158
After Tax Yearly Income = $11,587
After Tax Monthly Income = $11,587 / 12 months = $965.6


AVERAGE MONTHLY TAKE HOME AFTER THREE YEARS
REG = $2,923.7
RES = $866.7

A difference of $2,056.97, favourably of REG.



ASSUMPTIONS:
[list type=decimal]
[*]RANK STAYS AT PRIVATE FOR THREE (3) YEARS
[*]PAY INCREMENT LEVELS INCREASE YEARLY ON DATE OF ENROLLMENT
[*]PROVINCIAL TAXES PAID IN ONTARIO
[*]RES - PARADE ONE NIGHT WEEKLY - ONE WEEKEND(TWO DAYS) MONTHLY - 60 DAY COURSE SUMMER TIME
[*]RES - WEEKLY PARADE PAY = HALF OF DAY RATE
[*]RES - # OF PARADES - WEEKLY: 44 - Weekend: 10
[/list]

SOURCE:
REG FORCE PAY
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/reg-force-ncm-class-c-rates.page

RES FORCE PAY
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/ncm-class-a-b-service-rates.page

TAX CALCULATOR
https://simpletax.ca/calculator

Disclaimer: My decision isn't based solely on pay, though as the lubricant of society, and the constraints I currently face, it's a crucial factor in making an informed decision.
 

runormal

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If you don't go reg-f what are you going to be doing in your spare time? A critical factor in how much you will make in the reserves is how available you will be for taskings/courses in the summer and well as various times throughout the training year.

Edit:
The reserves are great for people who have something else to keep them occupied (School or work).
 
L

LightFighter

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If you want to do this full time, join the Regular Force. There isn't a great deal of full time jobs in the Reserves(also, depending on where you live, there may not be any positions nearby), and you wouldn't be eligible for them for awhile. Applying for a full time position is a competition, so you may not be able to get a full time job even if you are eligible. Keep in mind, these jobs won't be a Infantry job, but more admin, such as a file clerk at the CFRC.

Say in a couple years, you are a Cpl and do get a 3 year Class B job, you will still be making less than someone in the Regular Force.
 

expeditionary

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runormal said:
A critical factor in how much you will make in the reserves is how available you will be for taskings/courses in the summer and well as various times throughout the training year.

That's exactly what I'm after.

If I take the RES route, I'll be available for taskings and courses throughout the year.

What kind of taskings (duty, time period, etc.) are available as an NCM INF RES?
 

Eye In The Sky

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Interesting that you are asking about infantry stuff, but you have the 405 Sqn motto in your signature block.  ^-^
 

runormal

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expeditionary said:
That's exactly what I'm after.

If I take the RES route, I'll be available for taskings and courses throughout the year.

What kind of taskings (duty, time period, etc.) are available as an NCM INF RES?

No idea really, I've seen the odd Pat leave 6 month contract in Pet or w/e, but you had to pay your own way to get there in the first place as well as R/Q. In the sigs world it depends we various things here and there and there Class-A/B Junkies that jump around from one "meaningless" tasking to the next. I think it would be ok to do for the short term but I wouldn't advise it for the long haul.

I've posted this in a different thread so I'll quote my self.

runormal said:
It depends what you want:

If you want fairly consistent part time work with the potential of unstable contracts/tasking (CLS B's) and random CLS A taskings then join the reserves.
if you want full time consistent work join the reg-f.

The reserves is great for students, people who have a job that they enjoy but want to something else on the side and seasonal workers (fishermen/construction/farming) because they have something that occupies the bulk of their time.

While it is an option to transfer from the Res-F to the Reg-F it isn't always a smooth or timely process and it isn't a guarantee.

Based on you said it sounds like you don't have anything else going on. I think you'd be a fool to join the reserves instead of the reg-f and this is coming from a reservist. I was studying at university while i was in reserves. Now that I'll be graduating, I'll be working during the week while remaining a reservist. It is excellent supplementary income, but I wouldn't directly rely on it to pay the bills. 

Are you uneasy about the reg-f for some reason? Family? Moving? Girl/Boyfriend?

Edit: If you debating between school + reserves or reg-f I would say that there are pros and cons to and both options but I wouldn't join the reserves with the intention of trying to make a part-time job a full time job. Likewise most long term cls bs are cpl and above which is going to be at least 2.5 years.  You might be able to get something as a Pte (T), but that is a might.

Edit 2: from forces.ca

HOW LONG DO I HAVE TO SERVE?
Service in the Reserve Force is voluntary and for an undefined period. Most Reservists serve on a part-time basis and most have non-military, full-time careers or are full-time students.
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/careeroptions-123#tab3

 

expeditionary

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Hey runormal! Thanks so much for the much needed answering and insight!

runormal said:
I think it would be ok to do for the short term but I wouldn't advise it for the long haul.

Agreed. The plan here is three years.

runormal said:
Based on you said it sounds like you don't have anything else going on...It is excellent supplementary income, but I wouldn't directly rely on it to pay the bills. 

RES will definitely not be primary income!

runormal said:
Are you uneasy about the reg-f for some reason? Family? Moving? Girl/Boyfriend?

Yes. I'm between RES (living in big city, pursuing my equally important passion of pursuing arts/school, being with my family in their last years/old age) and REG (being financially secure, living and doing life with likeminded people, and really feeling like being "in" - this is personal).
 

expeditionary

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From this http://army.ca/forums/threads/13533/post-60522.html#msg60522 thread, I found this:

Cpl Bloggins said:
...when you‘re out in the field you get 16 bucks of ‘field operation allowance‘ every day you‘re out there...

If true, this fact adds ~$450 per month, or ~$900 per annum in my RES calculations. Though to balance this out, I'm sure it'd be true as well for REG, and we'd be in the field more days in a year than RES, but still, it all adds up.

Not bad.



I'm still not convinced that REG is the best way to go right now (even though I want it to be!), and by searching through the forums, I can only find people asking the same questions and nothing comprehensive that lists the deductions in pay. Hmm...
 

expeditionary

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Hi guys!

I'm looking to get into INF 00010 NCM, and although information exists on what the pay is, information on deductions is a little scarce.

Side note: I'm doing some research into a decision being made between joining the REG vs. RES force. The discussion and income schedule is is over here: http://army.ca/forums/threads/122173/post-1419581.html#msg1419581

The questions here today are some I can't find over the forum - I've searched (hopefully well enough!).
[list type=decimal]
[*]What are "normal" deductions from pay no one escapes?
[*]What are a few examples of out of pocket expenses?
[*]As deductions, are Rations and Quarters the same across the country, in every base?
[/list]
:cdn:
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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expeditionary said:
Hi guys!

I'm looking to get into INF 00010 NCM, and although information exists on what the pay is, information on deductions is a little scarce.

Side note: I'm doing some research into a decision being made between joining the REG vs. RES force. The discussion and income schedule is is over here: http://army.ca/forums/threads/122173/post-1419581.html#msg1419581

The questions here today are some I can't find over the forum - I've searched (hopefully well enough!).
[list type=decimal]
[*]What are "normal" deductions from pay no one escapes?[/list]
Same as in every other job in Canada, plus rations and quarter if you live in military quarters, and your mess dues.

  • What are a few examples of out of pocket expenses?
Coffee, chewing gum, cigarettes if you are a smoker (not recommended anymore), gas for your car, etc.
  • As deductions, are Rations and Quarters the same across the country, in every base?
No.
[/list]
:cdn:
 

kratz

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Why do you need a new thread with the same topic title, just to ask similar questions to what you admit you asked in an earlier thread of your own. The questions have been asked and answered multiple times in the past. Ultimately you can make an educated ballpark guess, but there are too many variables to nail down exact answers that you are expecting from this unofficial source.

To answer today's questions:
1.  Income Tax, CPP, EI, Mess Dues (both RegF and PRes)
2.  Haircuts, shoe polish and personal travel expenses not reimbursed by TD (individual choices)
3.  No. Are other prices the same across the country? (Gas, rent, food)
 

sarahsmom

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Also the mess dues vary from base to base and mess to mess. But you cannot opt out.
 

expeditionary

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Cheers! So pertinent to the military, it's basically just rations and quarters (rent and food) and mess dues.
 

sarahsmom

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There is also superannuation and SISIP. And PSHCP if you have a family and choose to opt in.
 

expeditionary

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paleomedic said:
There is also superannuation and SISIP. And PSHCP if you have a family and choose to opt in.

Wow wow wow! Lingo! *aggressively starts searching acronyms*
...
Cool! Great insight on the possibilities! Thanks!
 

expeditionary

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Wait. kratz. You marked me (a new user, less than a week old) spam? This thread was started by me for helping out others and myself realize what actually comes into your pocket at the end of the day, and answering questions I couldn't find, and yet another to augment the initial discussion. The answers of life and reasoning for life are out there, but people still ask them in many venues, and some (many) don't know, but say anything, yet the wise (few) ones that don't know, don't answer, something you've failed to demonstrate. It helps to no degree that your wise remarks to "todays questions" (as if I've my posts were a chore to you) contributed little to no significant insight.

kratz said:
Why do you need a new thread with the same topic title, just to ask similar questions to what you admit you asked in an earlier thread of your own. The questions have been asked and answered multiple times in the past.

I admitted in that new thread that I searched and attempted. Maybe you could have suggested I use Google, which I later did, and which a respectful admin gave me hints to use in a PM, which I'm posting here to help out the community, and not degrade it.

Google Search. site:army.ca (and your own content).
For example: www.google.ca -> site:army.ca rations and quarters -> Voila! First Link!

kratz said:
Ultimately you can make an educated ballpark guess, but there are too many variables to nail down exact answers that you are expecting from this unofficial source.

Maybe they're too many variables (for some to handle). I'll be dammed, I want to know them.

kratz said:
To answer today's questions:
1.  Income Tax, CPP, EI, Mess Dues (both RegF and PRes)
2.  Haircuts, shoe polish and personal travel expenses not reimbursed by TD (individual choices)
3.  No. Are other prices the same across the country? (Gas, rent, food)

1. You had seen my other topic, so you saw I calculated income tax.
2. Thanks for the insight. Being Green, I'd totally expect a military that says, "You have to have a hair cut/shaven head, but we ain't paying for it!" That makes sense! *sigh*
3. No. Real estate prices are not the same across the country, although so aren't the cost of low-skilled labour workers wages!!!

It's fair to assume, as our government posts wages for the position you'll enter and be paid (nationwide), you'll be paying consistent deductions (on that nationwide pay) regardless of geographic positing! Said in another way, the military is a federal job, so you're federal pay, not provincial/geographical, but nationally; as a job working at Tim Hortons is different in Toronto than Fort McMurray (logically: cost of living differs, so should pay. Does the military follow this principle?)

Anyway, forget the assumption, for when fighting (wanting to fight) for your country, one shouldn't be concerned about how much money is pocketed end of they day - though, wait, shouldn't it?; to fight only to understand ones pay, already we've lost the battle inside before we've started. - This is an example of the minds (rules writers) failing (or not caring) of the muscles (fighters) in our society. - Classical History in Modern Times 101

These considerations effect adversely or gainfully financial decisions we make day to day for life, and if we cannot contribute positively to the conversation with quantitative information about numbers, please, don't bother.
 
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