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Release -- overpayment of wages

ExcelBlack

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I joined NAVRES a year and a half ago. After BMQ I decided that the Military was not for me and indicated that I would like to be released. The release process took approximately 6 months. I finally got an email back from the unit indicating that I could sign the paperwork to be released, however the released would not be finalized until I paid back an amount that I was apparently overpaid.

They also emailed me a master pay statement, but going through it I can't find anything that jumps out at me to indicate overpayment.

Has anyone else had this happen to them? I was certainly amused by this principle, but I don't think it is legal.

What should I do? Should I try and fight it?

To clarify: the amount isn't any thing spectacular; its approximately $100 dollars. 
 

readytogo

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Did you parade with your unit during those 6 months???? I always thought that your release wasnt official until the paperwork has been signed so if you did parade then how could they ask for those funds back??? surely someone here knows better than me as i have not been in long and have not attempted a release.


RTG :cdn:
 

ExcelBlack

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readytogo: No, I did not parade with the unit during those six months. I only came in when requested to sign various papers.
 

dapaterson

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If you were overpaid, either in pay or on a claim, it constitutes a debt to the Crown and the CF has a legal obligation to recover that amount.

That being said, if you don't understand the master pay record, ask for an explanation.
 

MARS

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You need to go to your NRD's Ship's Office and ask for details.  They should be able to tell you.  If not, they will request a pay audit from NAVRESHQ.

Although it doesn't appear to be the situation here, since you seem to have finished BMQ,  I have seen people returned to their units early from BMQ, but the paperwork to terminate your pay early (which is done by the NRD) wasn't completed.  The member kept getting paid Class B wages until the oversight was noticed or the original contract ended.  More common during summer leave periods when SHOs are understaffed.  Again, that doesn't appear to be the case here. 

Is it possible you were paid at a higher rank than OS(R) during BMQ?

Regards,

MARS
 

George Wallace

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Get copies of your Bank Acct Statements and your Pay Records.  Match up your Pay with deposits to your Bank Acct.  If you have a problem, bring both records that you have been cross checking in to the Unit clerks and sort it out.  It should be relatively easy to confirm, as your Pay would have been Direct Deposits to your Bank.  There should be no room for errors.  You will be able to show both your records to the clerk and sort it out.
 

ExcelBlack

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MARS: I don't see OS(R) anywhere in this file, but I do see alot of OS(B). Would that constitute a higher rank than OS(R)?
 

George Wallace

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R = Recruit
B = Basic

OS(R) is paid less than OS(B).  You would have become OS(B) on completion of BMQ and the requisite time in.
 

ExcelBlack

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Interesting. So people on course are paid at OS R rates? If I was paid at OS B rates would that be an error?
 

dapaterson

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George Wallace said:
R = Recruit
B = Basic

OS(R) is paid less than OS(B).  You would have become OS(B) on completion of BMQ and the requisite time in.

Error, Will Robinson.  While many years ago there were different pay scales, OS and Pte are now on a single payscale with incentives.  See: http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/PayScalesNCMRes_en.pdf ; different payscales for OS(R) and OS(B) no longer exist.

The R, B and T suffixes indicate Recruit, Basic, and Trained, but do not change pay scales or pay incentives.
 

MARS

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dapaterson said:
Error, Will Robinson.  While many years ago there were different pay scales, OS and Pte are now on a single payscale with incentives.  See: http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/PayScalesNCMRes_en.pdf ; different payscales for OS(R) and OS(B) no longer exist.

The R, B and T suffixes indicate Recruit, Basic, and Trained, but do not change pay scales or pay incentives.

Seen.

Sorry ExcelBlack - didn't mean to add any more confusion to your situation.

But see your pay clerks, after you do what George Wallace suggests and compare all of your various records to see if anything jumps out at you.  If you have time during the day, go in to the unit then.  They will be less busy compared to a Training Night.  A quick call ahead to explain your situation will ensure that the clerk most familiar with your file will be there that day (larger units assign various files to various clerks to manage workload).
 

George Wallace

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dapaterson said:
Error, Will Robinson.  While many years ago there were different pay scales, OS and Pte are now on a single payscale with incentives.  See: http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/PayScalesNCMRes_en.pdf ; different payscales for OS(R) and OS(B) no longer exist.

The R, B and T suffixes indicate Recruit, Basic, and Trained, but do not change pay scales or pay incentives.

True.  It is all based on yearly increases in Incentive Levels.  So as (s)he progresses from (R) to (B) to (T) they are also progressing through yearly Incentive Levels.  As is pointed out, those bracketed letters are more for indicating what skill level the member is at opposed to pay level.
 

captloadie

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I don't see how comparing his bank records to the master pay report is going to help them find an error. If they don't know what they were supposed to be paid, matching a deposit to a pay record is not going to help. Especially when pay amounts change throughout the year for several reasons (EI, incentive increases, change in tax rates, etc.). Matching pay statements, and reviewing where there were increases would help though.

As previously stated, a good clerk should be able to fix it.
 

Mudshuvel

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I know with a few places I've worked that if you take all your vacation prior to dismissal or voluntary leave, you do sometimes have to pay it back. Reasoning behind it is that you're provided vacation at the beginning of every fiscal year with the intention that you're paying in to it bit by bit every pay. Is it possible since you have to pay a bit back due to that? I'm not sure how exactly this works gov. side.
 

George Wallace

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Mudshuvel said:
I know with a few places I've worked that if you take all your vacation prior to dismissal or voluntary leave, you do sometimes have to pay it back. Reasoning behind it is that you're provided vacation at the beginning of every fiscal year with the intention that you're paying in to it bit by bit every pay. Is it possible since you have to pay a bit back due to that? I'm not sure how exactly this works gov. side.

Class A Reservists don't have Leave/Vacation time.
 

George Wallace

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captloadie said:
I don't see how comparing his bank records to the master pay report is going to help them find an error. .........

As previously stated, a good clerk should be able to fix it.

I know that if someone was telling me that they paid me too much, I would be looking at my bank acct for the money to see that it actually went there.  If it wasn't in my bank acct. then someone else is in error.
 

Nfld Sapper

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Mudshuvel said:
I know with a few places I've worked that if you take all your vacation prior to dismissal or voluntary leave, you do sometimes have to pay it back. Reasoning behind it is that you're provided vacation at the beginning of every fiscal year with the intention that you're paying in to it bit by bit every pay. Is it possible since you have to pay a bit back due to that? I'm not sure how exactly this works gov. side.

George Wallace said:
Class A Reservists don't have Leave/Vacation time.

Right, we get 9% PILL (Pay In Lieu of Leave) added for every day worked at the CLASS A level
 

JMesh

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George Wallace said:
I know that if someone was telling me that they paid me too much, I would be looking at my bank acct for the money to see that it actually went there.  If it wasn't in my bank acct. then someone else is in error.

I actually had something like this happen with the CF. Following employment as a Civilian Instructor in a recent summer, I received a letter saying that I had been paid Incidental Expenses which, as a Civilian Instructor, I was not entitled to. It requested I send a cheque for the amount to the Receiver General. After consolidating pay stubs with my bank records, I found that I had not been paid the money in question. It was a simple mistake that someone else's paper had been accidentally laid in my file (they were literally handling a few hundred travel claims that came in all at once, it was easy enough to do).

To the OP, check your records first and figure out what happened. If you can't find it, find out what they say you were overpaid for (i.e. LDA, CLDA, pay, incidental expenses, etc.) and when, and check it against your records. Like you said, it's not a lot, but it's better to verify everything anyways. If there was an error, the money could still be useful, and the issue might affect other members at your unit if a similar error was made. Best of luck either way.
 

Pusser

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There has been some good advice here.  The bottom line is you have a right to ask for a full accounting and explanation, so do it.  Whatever you do, do not ignore it.  It will not go away.  The CF has a legal obligation to go after any and all money that is owed and having it written off is close to impossible.  If you ignore the system, it will come after you and will eventually tap into your income tax returns.  So unless you want to become a hermit and remove yourself entirely from Canadian society, the government will get you eventually.
 
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