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Remains found at Kamloops residential school 'not an isolated incident,' Indigenous experts and leaders warn

Brad Sallows

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remove the children from abusive households

Which ironically was among the purposes of the residential schools. With that done horribly, I wonder what options there are.
 

OldSolduer

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TB was particularly rampant on FNTs back then and is still prevalent on some communities today
You are right on this. A few of our guests form up north arrive with active TB and need to be isolated.
 

Brad Sallows

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The availability of modern ob/gyn care alone is probably worth more than all the land in the Americas. The door is open. I have no interest in preserving/stranding people in pseudo-traditional villages as some kind of living museum exhibits.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Some bands that signed treaties warn that treaties might not be such a good idea, because your very much more on your own. The majority of bands are "Wards of the State".
 

Good2Golf

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‘We’ is certainly the Canadian federal government, certainly from the 1930s with the SCC’s 1939 Re Eskimo decision on the status of the Inuit to be considered as Indians per the Indian Act, onwards.

If one the time, I suggest this reference for reading.
CANADA’S RELATIONSHIP WITH INUIT: A History of Policy and Program Development (.pdf)

The section ‘ARCTIC SOVEREIGNTY AND INUIT RELOCATIONS’ is particularly interesting as it outlines the shift from Government subsistence relief in the 1920s into more deliberate resource and sovereignty-related forced relation in the 50s and 60s.

Overall, the Government, on behalf of the people, showed and to a fair degree continues to show a disconnectedness from how the Inuit got to where they are now and how Canada support (or doesn’t) them in their stagnated (vice nomadic) subsistence.

Regards
G2G
 

Weinie

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Yes, actually.

But here is the kicker- nobody in Ottawa to blame if things go wrong. Self-Government means just that.

Oh and questions might start getting asked from below on just how the Band money is being spent.
Ummm. OK. Self government means just what the local government determines/means what self government means. Too many shyte examples to post.

And so there have been multiple examinations on how band money has been spent, much like municipalities, which is good, from an accountability standpoint. The results have been mixed, with recommendations made.
 

brihard

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Make no mistake: the residential schools were a significant manifestation of deliberate government policies towards indigenous populations that, were they to be repeated today, would absolutely constitute the crime of “genocide” under both international and domestic criminal law.

The explicit and deliberate intent was to destroy the culture of “the Indian”. Forcible transfer of children, at the hands of both the Church and by Canadian government agents - Indian Agents and the RCMP - was a part of this. It was a deliberate effort to stamp out the culture and destroy the bonds between communities and their children. They did a pretty good job, and the damage to this day is tremendous.

I have no idea how to make it right.
 

MilEME09

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It can't be "made right"....it happened, nothing changes that. All that can be done is to make sure it never happens again.......
And try to forge a better path forward together, which is easier said then done. Personally I think a good Gauntlet to pick up would be clean drinking water. It would take decades of hard work but if we start improving quality of life and the basics in FN communities it could go a long way.
 

Weinie

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Make no mistake: the residential schools were a significant manifestation of deliberate government policies towards indigenous populations that, were they to be repeated today, would absolutely constitute the crime of “genocide” under both international and domestic criminal law.

The explicit and deliberate intent was to destroy the culture of “the Indian”. Forcible transfer of children, at the hands of both the Church and by Canadian government agents - Indian Agents and the RCMP - was a part of this. It was a deliberate effort to stamp out the culture and destroy the bonds between communities and their children. They did a pretty good job, and the damage to this day is tremendous.

I have no idea how to make it right.
Bri,

You are attempting to apply 2021 cultural "normalcies" to 19th and early 20th century realities. Make no mistake, the schools and the Catholic church, at that time, were not considering the eradication of native populations. Rather, they were focused on mass proselytization.
 

brihard

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Bri,

You are attempting to apply 2021 cultural "normalcies" to 19th and early 20th century realities. Make no mistake, the schools and the Catholic church, at that time, were not considering the eradication of native populations. Rather, they were focused on mass proselytization.

Genocide is not limited to physical eradication. Other mechanisms that serve the ends of reducing or eliminating an identifiable group fit within it too. In this instance there are a couple of different manifestations that would fit legal definitions, forcible transfer of children being one of them.

Daniel Holdhagen wrote a really solid book on the multiple manifestations of genocide a few years back, Worse than War. It’s a bit of a tome, but a good read. On the legal side, Canada criminalizes Genocide under the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act, which codifies both treaty and customary international law, not least the ‘Rome Statute’. The ICC’s publication Elements of Offences is both useful and persuasive in understanding these definitions.

The intent absolutely was to reduce our native population and to convert them into something else from how settlers found them, through forced assimilation, and a multitude of abusive practices. It was genocide. The fact that, at that time in history, our ancestors were the ones who were generally ok with it doesn’t minimize what it was.

When our nation’s erstwhile practices towards the indigenous were first described as ‘genocide’ I scoffed at it, like many. As I’ve continued to learn, and particularly as I’ve become increasingly versed in crimes against humanity, I have reluctantly had to change my views.
 

Remius

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And the last residential schools closed in the 1990s. They even knew that in the early 1900s that this was bad, the fact that went late into the 20th century is unbelievable. We have survivors that disagree about how acceptable this was.

Stop minimizing this and making excuses. That would be a good start.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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Genocide is not limited to physical eradication. Other mechanisms that serve the ends of reducing or eliminating an identifiable group fit within it too. In this instance there are a couple of different manifestations that would fit legal definitions, forcible transfer of children being one of them.

Daniel Holdhagen wrote a really solid book on the multiple manifestations of genocide a few years back, Worse than War. It’s a bit of a tome, but a good read. On the legal side, Canada criminalizes Genocide under the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act, which codifies both treaty and customary international law, not least the ‘Rome Statute’. The ICC’s publication Elements of Offences is both useful and persuasive in understanding these definitions.

The intent absolutely was to reduce our native population and to convert them into something else from how settlers found them, through forced assimilation, and a multitude of abusive practices. It was genocide. The fact that, at that time in history, our ancestors were the ones who were generally ok with it doesn’t minimize what it was.

When our nation’s erstwhile practices towards the indigenous were first described as ‘genocide’ I scoffed at it, like many. As I’ve continued to learn, and particularly as I’ve become increasingly versed in crimes against humanity, I have reluctantly had to change my views.



Thats great that you decided it was 'genocide', I can't imagine anyone ever thinking anything else then that, but, I say again, IT HAPPENED.........we should be working forward together and not navel gazing backwards.
 

Remius

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Thats great that you decided it was 'genocide', I can't imagine anyone ever thinking anything else then that, but, I say again, IT HAPPENED.........we should be working forward together and not navel gazing backwards.
Ignoring it is why it’s taken so long to acknowledge it. Part of moving forward is acknowledging what happened and yeah, it will take some uncomfortable “navel gazing” backwards to do that.
 

Weinie

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Genocide is not limited to physical eradication. Other mechanisms that serve the ends of reducing or eliminating an identifiable group fit within it too. In this instance there are a couple of different manifestations that would fit legal definitions, forcible transfer of children being one of them.

Daniel Holdhagen wrote a really solid book on the multiple manifestations of genocide a few years back, Worse than War. It’s a bit of a tome, but a good read. On the legal side, Canada criminalizes Genocide under the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act, which codifies both treaty and customary international law, not least the ‘Rome Statute’. The ICC’s publication Elements of Offences is both useful and persuasive in understanding these definitions.

The intent absolutely was to reduce our native population and to convert them into something else from how settlers found them, through forced assimilation, and a multitude of abusive practices. It was genocide. The fact that, at that time in history, our ancestors were the ones who were generally ok with it doesn’t minimize what it was.

When our nation’s erstwhile practices towards the indigenous were first described as ‘genocide’ I scoffed at it, like many. As I’ve continued to learn, and particularly as I’ve become increasingly versed in crimes against humanity, I have reluctantly had to change my views.
Granted. No one limits genocide, and I challenge you to find any Canadian gov't policy that was aimed at physical eradication that was enacted.

But there are many narratives that strike an opposing view, and postulate that indigenous communities ,without external assistance, would have disappeared, due to disease.
 

Remius

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I’ll never understand how anyone can justify or minimise any of this.
 

Weinie

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I’ll never understand how anyone can justify or minimise any of this.
Ok. I will try. Tubercolosis was the leading cause of death, across many strata. Smallpox was endemic and killed 1 in 5 that it infected.

So, based on the fact that about 180+ died of endemic diseases per 1000, in that time period, that would suggest that the school over the course of the worst of it, would have seen about @2400 deaths. That didn't happen.

 
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Quirky

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I am of the opinion at this point that solution is to raise the GST two points, give the resultant money every year to a panel of First Nations, no strings attached, and they distribute it under rules that they develop to each and every First Nation.

No more money from government and my tax dollars. How many more untold billions must we throw at the problem? Doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. Anytime there is any meaningful talk to help these people long term, like cancelling a lot of these incentives to lock them on reserve land, it's deemed racist and heartless and the left wing wants to keep them locked forever. It’s never about reparation, it’s always money.
 

daftandbarmy

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Yes, actually.

But here is the kicker- nobody in Ottawa to blame if things go wrong. Self-Government means just that.

Oh and questions might start getting asked from below on just how the Band money is being spent.

Dude... don't rile up the Scottish Regimental Senates or we're all dooooomed ;)
 

Brad Sallows

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Bear in mind that infant mortality statistics are not relevant for a school-age population.

Reconciliation is hard. Monty Python skits aside, indigenous populations displaced, ruled, and abused by colonial powers and immigrants rarely make a measured evaluation of what benefits may have been gained (perhaps with the exception of indigenous populations that were victims of stronger neighbouring indigenous populations). People mostly want to rule themselves.
 
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