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Reserve DEO Questions

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humint

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I‘ve been having this discussion with some people, and everyone seems to have a different opinion or experience. Anyway, I wanted to get some feedback on this.

When you first get enrolled as an officer, you come in as an OCdt. However, you can (should be??) be bumped-up immediately (i.e. that day) to 2LT (or another rank, depending on your trade/speciality, etc) if you have a university degree.

But, some people have reported that they have not been bumped-up while others have.

I know what the CF policy statement says, but is there a protocol/unwritten rule that the CO follows?

It doesn‘t seem like this bumping-up is automatic.

Do some CO‘s wait until you‘ve passed BOTP, etc?

Anyone have insight into this?
 

Zoomie

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If we‘re talking the Reserve world, then I can only tell you what I have seen in the past.
Those officer candidates that have a university degree should be inducted into the CF and take all their courses as a 2Lt. Those candidates lacking a degree will remain an OCDT until MOC qualified.
Reg force world is completely different, but I won‘t go into that unless requested.
 
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humint

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I‘m talking Res world -- and those who have already completed a degree.

I know the Reg force all depends on MOC and specialization.
 

ggranatstein

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Humint,

I had been told that those with a degree would be bumped up to 2Lt. immediately most of the time.

However, discretion lies completely with the CO.

Upon completion of BOTP(R) and CAP(R) you are promoted to 2lt regardless - as you are a qualified to be an officer. MOC training is not necessary to be a 2Lt.

This is coming from the WO of a reserve regiment in Ottawa.

If you are going into a differnet speciality, i.e JAG, you are given a different rank.

Hope this helps,
Gabriel

p.s. Humint - looks like I‘ll be joining you for the BOTP and CAP in Gage!
 

ProPatria05

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Here‘s another twist on this.

I had applied to enter as an Officer, and was sworn in on Jan 24, 2002. A BMQ course was starting on 14 Feb, before any officer board could be convened (usually done locally with Reserves). So, to get me on the course (rather than have to wait until the fall), they asked me if I would mind enrolling as an NCM, with commission to come later, since one option for new Reserve Officers is to take BMQ with NCMs (usually as an OCDT or 2LT, mind you), with a leadership week to follow.

I had no problem whatsoever with this, so I actually started my stint with the Reserves as a Private. Toward the end of the BMQ, I did my Officer Board, and shortly after the BMQ I was promoted to Officer Cadet, the rank I held while completing the BOTP(2) 5-day leadership course. Following this, I was commissioned to 2LT.

The only problem with this is that even if you do well on the course, many of your course-mates, and especially the Cpl/MCpl instructors on the course, still see you as Private Bloggins after you are commissioned. There is a bit of an uphill battle to get the respect that the commission (not the man) is owed. But with time and good demonstration of leadership, both you and your commission will gain the respect of the troops.
 
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Illucigen

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Reg force wise:

Degree or not, you cant be a 2LT until you pass BOTP.

Period.

Once you have your BOTP, if you have a degree, you are commissioned and sent on phase.

I have yet to see a 2Lt do a basic here in St jean (at the reg force level) except for : Doctors/lawyers. Some of them are given a 6 month-year extension.
 
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humint

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The terms of service are outlined here:

Reg Force:
http://www.dnd.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/006-01_e.asp

Most are Ofcdt until Moc qualified -- the exception is for specialities such as Theology, Docs, etc.

Res Force:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-10_e.asp

As mentioned above, it looks like the CO has complete discretion about promotion to 2Lt at anytime after enrolment. Higher ranks are attainable depending on speciality.
 

william

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I want to get some opinions about joining. I did some reading on the net about the Canadian Army and it said that if get a bachelors degree in colledge and join the Army you get to start off as a lieutenant.

Well I want to know if its true and if its worth while. :salute:
 

MikeM

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You can't get a degree from a college.. do you mean a diploma? Or do you mean a degree from a university?.

Also, upon entering the Canadian Forces as an officer, you will start at the rank of Officer Cadet. Someone can correct me if I am wrong on any of this.
 

Eowyn

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MikeM said:
Also, upon entering the Canadian Forces as an officer, you will start at the rank of Officer Cadet. Someone can correct me if I am wrong on any of this.

In the Reserves, as a DEO Officer, you could be enrolled as an OCdt and promoted to 2Lt the same day.
 

shootergurl

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I was told by a recruiter yesterday that having a bachelor's degree would entitle me to enter the reserves as an officer with the rank of second-lieutenant . 
 

Inch

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Yes you are correct, it's just a paper thing. You have to enroll before you can get a commission, you need to have a commission in order to be a 2Lt. To you it'll all happen instantaneously, but on paper it'll follow that sequence.
 
H

humint

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Here's the deal:

Yes, as a DEO (Direct Entry Officer) with a BA or more, you come into the ResF as a 2Lt, or at almost any Officer rank the CO appoints (but 2Lt is the most common).

For example, someone with a PhD could, in theory, enter as a Capt.

Generally, those entering as a DEO as a Medical Officer, Padre, or Legal Officer come into the unit as a Capt.

Often, people come into the ResF as a Ocdt and then are promoted to 2Lt the same day -- but, as mentioned above, this is merely on paper.

There is an odd exeption to the this rule for the RegF. If you look at Personnel Selection Officer or Public Affairs Officer, you will notice that the pers in those trades are promoted to LT after completing the first section of training (i.e. before MOC training). 

I'm not 100% sure on this one, but I believe pers entering the RegF as a DEO are given the rank of 2Lt immediately upon enrollment.

As for is it worth it? Well, it all depends on what you are measuring the worth of a Commission as a 2Lt. If you are looking for big bucks, you should be looking elsewhere. But, if you are looking for a challenging career that you can't find on civvie street, than look no further -- 'cause yes, it's worth it.

What you need to do is ask yourself this question: If money is not a concern, would you still join the CF as an NCM?

If you answer 'no' because you think that such a role is beneath you, than you should look for employment elsewhere. The simple fact is this: if you think NCMs are beneath you, than you have no right leading them in battle -- and that's what this job is all about.

My humble opinion, that's all.
 

BLACKBERRY

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I am sure what William meant was a university-college like the university-college of the Fraser Valley. Anyways, I am in my third year of BA in sociology  at the British Columbia Open University soon to be Thompson Rivers University B.C newest University. William, one piece of important info
no matter what anyone on here tells you about just getting in with a degree you also have to have math and chem or phyis 12. Some people do biology 12 and math 11 to graduate in BC. Make sure you have those courses along with your degree. I am 100 percent sure about this.
 

ReadyAyeReady

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Blackberry,

I'm a little confused about your note regarding Math 12 and Physics or Chem 12.  If you need those courses to qualify for a Commission then that's news to me.  The recruiting centre in Vancouver never told me that when I applied.  I think it all depends on what career path you are applying for (why would a Public Affairs Officer need Math 12 and Phys 12, on the other hand a pilot or a signals officer wouldn't be able to survive without Math and Phys).  It would seem absurd to discount an applicant simply because they don't have Phys or Chem 12...then you'd get situations where perfectly qualified persons are getting rejected simply because they weren't interested in Phys or Chem in high school. If the CF is doing that then they are automatically discoounting a whole whack of intelligent people (Thats my opinion anyway).  I'd double check with the recruiting centre...I know I'm going to.  I did Math 12 but not Phys or Chem and that hasn't hindered my application for Infantry, Armour and Artillery.  According to the CF website, to qualify as an infantry officer all it says regarding educational qualifications is this:

Entry applicants must hold a Bachelor's degree from an accredited Canadian university.

Anyway, that's what I've been told and it would be good to clarify the issue.
 
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humint

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You only need grade 12/OAC Math and Chem, plus an appropriate degree, for certain trades such as Combat Engineers.

However, since you normally need an OAC or senior level Math credit to get into university in the first place, by default you will have some sort of math credit under your belt. For example, I have OAC Finite Math, but I didn't take Bio or Chem after grade 10.

For those joining the Combat Arms, don't worry, just check with a CFRC recruiter.

In fact, ALWAYS check with a CFRC recruiter regarding the academic qualifications for the trades you may be interested in joining. They will let you know exactly what you need, and don't need, to qualify.
 

tree hugger

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When I was in reserves, (just 2 years ago) you had to have university and BOTP finished before you got promoted to 2Lt or finish your first MOC course.  Didn't hear of people coming in off the street getting their 2Lt's.
 

william

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I had some technical difficulties with that last post.
I've done some more research and you need to have a bachelors degree level in an acretitted Canadian Colledge or University to join as an officier.

Thats all it said though, it didn't say anything about having highschool qualifications.
What would you say that I do when I'm eligible to join if I just wanted to be in the army and didn't care about the pay. What would give me a better experience.
 
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