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Reserves Logistics Officer - Development path

nick_the_guy

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Can someone help me understand the training path to becoming a Logistics Officer in the Primary Reserves? I am a Certified Management Accountant and I'd like to apply my skills in the Army.

1) For Basic Officer Training Program (BOTP) , is it modular or do you have to take all 15 weeks in one shot? I see in the LFWA Course Calendar, there is a 10 day PRes BOTP 2 so does this mean that there is a shorter BOTP 1?

2) For Common Army Phase (CAP), can you take it in modules (1-5) as described for the Infantry in the Army Individual Training Calendar or are those Modules only for Infantry?

3) For courses entitled RES LOG OFFR LAND BCT PT 1, 2, 3 FIN and 3, S&T, do you have to complete those to move up from Officer Cadet to 2nd Lt.? For PT 1, it is says (DL Package) and it says it's approximately 120 days. The other modules are 12 days.

BTW, what does DL Package mean?

If I understand correctly, to make at least 2nd Lt. in the Primary Reserves as a Logistics Officer, you need to attend multiple training sessions which may last 3-4 months at a time. That's kinda difficult to do with a full-time job.
 

dangerboy

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As I am not involved with the CAP or BOTP courses I can't answer most of your questions but I can tell you what DL stands for.  It stands for Distant Learning, it is done usually through the DND learn website at home or work, it can be accessed through civilian internet or the DIN (sometimes it actually works better on civilian computers).  Usually a series of reading assignments then some kind of test (an exam or essay).  Hope this answers at least one of your questions. 
 

nick_the_guy

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Yes, thank you. I did not know that there was a distance learning program as I thought all training was conducted through a reserve unit or at a CF base.

Edit: Reviewing the CF Recruiting website, it looks like I don't even have a basic understanding of the training involved. Rather than CAP, it has BOTP, Environmental Officers Common Course, Logistics Officers Common Course, Logistics Sub-Occupation Training and then Intermediate Training. How are these courses made available to PREs officers and how do they tie into the RES LOG OFFR LAND BCT PT 1, 2 and 3 courses?
 

dapaterson

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Army Res Log O:

1.  BMOQ or whatever it's called today

2.  CAP - in modules, can be done straight or mod by mod as you are available.

3.  Basic Classification Training (BCT) 1: DL course.  There's a four month window to complete the content, and a set date for the final exam.

4.  BCT 2 and BCT 3: Residency courses in Borden, about 2 weeks each.

That is Developmental Period 1 complete.

Next courses:

Army Junior Officer Staff Qualification (AJOSQ) - all DL;
Army Tactical Operations Course - Combat Service Support (ATOC-CSS) - DL followeed by residency in Gagetown; and
Army Operations Course (AOC) - DL, some residency weekends in different locations (depending on your parent area) followed by a two week residency in Kingston.

With those complete you will hold all the quals required for promotion to Maj.
 

nick_the_guy

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Thank Dapaterson. But can someone confirm that a Reserve Logistics Officer needs to do CAP? Unfortunately, the job sheet on the CF Recruiting website refers to the Regular Forces. I plan on dropping by the local service batallion for more information once the new year starts, but until then, I'd appreciate any help I can get here.
 

nick_the_guy

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Thanks Tango2Bravo and dapaterson, just a few more follow-up questions. Is that development path the same as a Regular Force officer? How long would it take to accomplish all of that training, in terms of the fastest timeframe and then the most typical timeframe? Possible to do in a 5 year contract if I choose to join the Regular Force?
 

George Wallace

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As a Reservist, the amount of time to complete this training will fairly much depend on how much time you can commit to completing the required courses.  That combined with the availability of courses, and aligning the two.
 

nick_the_guy

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Oy, for every answer there is a new question. When I compare the PRes BMQ on the Army Individual Training Calendar to BMQ on the CFLRS website, the PRes BMQ is 3 weeks while the Regular BMQ is 13 weeks.

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/menu/ps/rec/index-eng.asp

Is there an abbreviated PRes version of BMOQ or does a Reservist need to take the full 15 week BMOQ?

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/menu/ps/off/index-eng.asp

Thanks.

Nick
 

Nfld Sapper

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IIRC most Reserve Officers will be loaded on a BMQ course and then will do the 2 PO addon to complete BMOQ.
 

greentoblue

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First thing to realize about the Reserves is that they are always under huge time constraints so courses in the reserves are shorter than the reg force equivalent in most cases.  That's why a PRes basic training course is shorter than the reg force equivalent.  Your best bet is to go visit a reserve unit, preferably a Service Battalion, but combat arms and other support trades also need logistics officers, particularly finance ones.

Its been awhile since I was on these courses so my info is stale:  Army Reserve logistics officer training is also different between regular and reserve.  In the reserve stream you skip the Phase 3 common log course.  Instead BCT 1,2 are the field oriented parts of the Army Log Officer Phase 4 course: map marking, scheduling, Combat Service Support doctrine, command post duties, siting of a platoon in the field etc.  BCT 3 is pulled from the relevant speciality course ie finance or supply & transport.  In theory you can be fully reserve-trade qualified after only two summers if you have the time.

As for going reg force just to get your qualifications, officer contracts are for much longer lengths than NCMs so I would advise against it.  The reason why is so that officers stay in the reg force instead of pulling pin.
 

nick_the_guy

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I see, I see. Thanks greentoblue and NFLD Sapper. I'll be sure to ask a recruiter about BMQ and this 2 PO add-on. Would this 2 PO be a course called PRes BOTP 2 which lasts for 12 days? As for missing out on Part 3, that's a shame because I'm a Certified Management Accountant and I thought that I could bring my accounting knowledge to help them with finance (as well as learn the other aspects of logistics). I do plan on visiting a Service Battalion which is only a few blocks from my new workplace - in the meantime, I'll just be enjoying the holidays while they're on break.
 

Nfld Sapper

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From the BOTP TP date 2004 (might be out dated)

PRes BOTP will be conducted by Reserve units in two blocks:
a. Block I - the officer-cadet successfully completes PRes Basic Military Qualification (PRes BMQ) in accordance with A-PD-050-BMQ/PH-H16; then
b. Block II - the officer-cadet completes the leadership portion of the PRes BOTP. This portion consists of selected elements of the first three POs of the Reg F BOTP;
c. Block II is intended to be conducted at the Brigade or Area level and is not intended to be run or managed at the unit level. A unit may be tasked to conduct block II on behalf of the Brigade for some or all of the units within the Brigade in order to make the maximum efficient use of resources and personnel. Any unit is not permitted to conduct Block II without the Brigade Comd consent; and
d. Block II must be conducted in a manner that allows the course candidates to collaborate and interact with one another as well as be mentored and guided by course staff.

and
SCHEDULING
11. PRes BOTP may be conducted as one complete session or split into weekend sessions.
a. PRes BOTP Block I is to be conducted in accordance with BMQ(L) TP A-PD-050-BMQ/PH-H16; and
b. PRes BOTP Block II may be run in either a six-day session or three weekend sessions to include Friday evening, Saturday and Sunday. Candidates will be expected to remain at the TE for the duration of the session to ensure collaboration and group learning.
c. A certain amount of flexibility exists in the scheduling of and conduct of PRes BOTP. Should a perceived requirement for alterations to the conduct of this course exist, contact AITD Army 1 for approval.
 

nick_the_guy

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Great, thanks NFLD Sapper. Just to clarify, can you tell me what PO means? Also, assume I can complete BMQ and BOTP 2. What about CAP? Is that modularized as well and can be conducted locally? I'm in Vancouver - according to a training schedule I found back in the summer, I see a couple BMQ courses and a BOTP 2 course but I don't see anything under LWFA for the Common Army Phase. I'm wondering if I would need to fly out to Gagetown for 2 months.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/Downloads/training_calendar-calendrier_d_entrainement-2009.xls
 

TangoTwoBravo

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nick_the_guy said:
Just to clarify, can you tell me what PO means?

In course parlance a PO is a Performance Objective. A fairly simple course might have only one or two POs, while a core Developmental Period (DP) course could have over twenty. A PO will usually be a task which the course graduate must be able to accomplish at his unit. A PO on a course could be something like Fire the Service Rifle or Conduct Dismounted Patrol or any number of tasks that the Qualification Standard Writing Board deemed necessary to the course. POs are then further broken down into EO (Enabling Objectives).

For some courses, Reserve Force candidates do not complete all the POs. These become, in theory, the supplemental POs that the individual must cover before going to war.

You don't need to worry about the terminology of things like POs and such.
 

nick_the_guy

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Thanks again for your replies. I'll be dropping by the Service Batallion in January. Just read the budget cut news on CBC.ca and read the Reserves standdown thread, not looking to good but I'll see what they say at the armoury.
 

NSDreamer

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Bit of a Necro Post:

Does anyone have a DWAN Link for where CMP is storing the official career development paths? I've got a copy of  A-PD-055-002/PP-001 from 2014, but am looking for a more up to date version.

 

ModlrMike

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I don't think there's a specific link. We just had a brief from the CM and the new plan appears to allign the PRes LogO trg with what ther RegF. The bsicc model should look something like this:

Summer 1 - Ph1 and Ph2 (BMOQ and environmentaal trg)
Summer 2 - Ph 3 Part 1
Summer 3 - Ph 3 Part 2

Except for NAVRES LogO, I'm not sure what Ph 3 will look like for thee Militia and Air Resserve, save to say that the Log world is looking to close the OFP delta between. Reg and Res.
 
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