Reservists Job Protection Superthread

[elcope]

Could someone direct me to a website which describes the law which protects reservists from losing their jobs when called up on extended periods of active duty.

Thank you for your help,

Ed

Reply to:

elcope@aol.com
or
edward.cope1@usarc-emh2.army.mil

 

[John Nayduk]

Here‘s the link.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/PDF/37/2/parlbus/chambus/house/bills/government/C-17_1.pdf

 

[Jarnhamar]

Eh?

I thought only the US had that kind of legislation??

 

[Sharpey]

We do to, but there is fine print involved. Volunteering for UN etc... is not classified as a call out. If the manure hits the wind making device and Canada declares war then CALLS UP it‘s Reserves, in other words demands, then gear up as your job is protected for up to a year after your return I beleive it is.

Stuff like Ice Storm or Roto 13, no, you and the rest of us are SOL. This is an ongoing battle that will never be one.

 

[elcope]

Thank You for your prompt reply, But the bill C17, that I looked at mostly contains stuff about bioterrorism.

Do I need to keep reading?

Ed

 

[SNoseworthy]

Refer to Section 13, Part 7 of the bill:

285.02
(1) If an officer or non-commissioned
member of the reserve force is called
out on service in respect of an emergency, the
officer’s or member’s employer shall reinstate
the officer or member in employment at the
expiry of that service.

(2) The officer or member must be reinstated
in a capacity and under terms and
conditions of employment no less favourable
to the officer or member than those that would
have applied if the officer or member had
remained in the employer’s employment.

(3) An officer or member who wishes to be
reinstated must apply to the employer for
reinstatement within ninety days after the
expiry of the officer’s or member’s actual
service or service deemed extended by virtue
of section 285.03.

(4) The employer’s duty to reinstate an
officer or member does not apply in the
circumstances prescribed in regulations made
by the Governor in Council.

(5) The procedure for applying for reinstatement
is that prescribed in regulations made by the Governor in Council.

285.03 If, immediately following the officer’s
or member’s service, the officer or
member is hospitalized or is physically or
mentally incapable of performing the duties of
the position to which the officer or member
would have been entitled on reinstatement,the period of hospitalization or incapacity, to
a maximum prescribed in regulations made by
the Governor in Council, is deemed for the
purposes of this Part to be part of the period of
the officer’s or member’s service.

285.04 On reinstatement, an officer’s or
member’s benefits, and the employer’s obligations, in respect of remuneration, pension,
promotion, permanent status, seniority, paid
vacation and other employment benefits shall
be in accordance with regulations made by the
Governor in Council.

285.05 Any agreement or arrangement
between an employer and an officer or
member respecting reinstatement continues in
force, except to the extent that it is less
advantageous to the officer or member than is
this Part.

285.06 During the one-year period following
an officer’s or member’s reinstatement,
(a) the employer shall not terminate the
officer’s or member’s employment without
reasonable cause; and
(b) if the employer terminates the officer’s
or member’s employment, the onus, in any
prosecution under section 285.08, is on the
employer to establish that the employer had
reasonable cause.

Check page 75 in the PDF for the first page of the section, if continues on from there.

 

[RoyalHighlander]

By DAN PALMER, EDMONTON SUN

CAMP COURCELETTE, Bosnia-Herzegovina -- Some of Canada‘s reserve soldiers want civilian job protection when volunteering for overseas tours as the military uses more of them to relieve the strain on regular troops.

"Personally it would be a bonus. I know a lot of guys who would come over here if they had job protection," said Sgt. John Hertwig-Jaksch, 24, a reservist from the Loyal Edmonton Regiment, one of the roughly 120 reservists making up Delta Company of the 1 Princess Patricia‘s Canadian Light Infantry Battle Group.

Hertwig-Jaksch graduated from the police and security course at Grant MacEwan College before coming here and wants to be an Edmonton police officer. Delta Company represents the first time in nearly 10 years reservists have deployed as a complete rifle company in an operational theatre.

"This is the start of a trend," said military spokesman Maj. Tim Lourie, adding the next few rotations in Bosnia will have a similar reserve element.

Col. Peter Atkinson, in charge of the Canadian task force in Bosnia, said the regular force of full-time soldiers needs the part-time reservists to help the military keep up with its commitments abroad. "We can‘t maintain the operation pace on our own," said Atkinson.

U.S. National Guard and reserve soldiers have job protection to keep their positions available at civilian companies when they return from an operation, say officials.

Cpl. Dan Demers, 20, said there‘s an advantage to relying more on reserves for older missions in places like Bosnia.

"Not only is it less pressure, it decreases the workload for the regular forces in cases where there‘s an emergency," said Demers, also of the Loyal Edmonton Regiment, who was engaged in emergency medical training at NAIT before coming here.

John Fraser, referring to a defence minister‘s committee that‘s now looking at reserve soldiers, said it‘s better to investigate tax incentives for employers rather than legislation for job protection.

Fraser‘s concern is some businesses might not hire reservists knowing jobs would have to be held while the part-time soldiers are on tours.

"Some might not hire reservists if they had to do this," said Fraser, speaking at Camp Black Bear in Bosnia.

"We‘ve been impressed with this contingent," said Fraser.

Hertwig-Jaksch said that if employers wouldn‘t hire reservists that would be discrimination, which he can‘t see Canada putting up with.

However, the Canadian military already has the Canadian Forces Liaison Council to help reservists and their employers. It encourages businesses to hire reservists by pointing out that the part-time soldiers have more to offer because of their military background, say officials.

 

[RoyalHighlander]

Just a point of interest, in the US, most companies have a plan in place for those that are reservists, and thewy keep thier job. Some even continue to pay wages to those who get called up. Those employers that dont, risk any govt contracts they may have..

 

[Jarnhamar]

Down side i can see with that is an employer simply not giving a reservest a job or passing them up for someone else not in the military because they dont want to have to hold the job position for someone who leaves for a year.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Maybe if they ever get this to fly in Parliment, they can include a clause making it illegal for employers to ask if you serve in the Reserve. Similar to it being illegal to ask about race, religion, etc on applications. Just a thought. Can‘t see the current regime doing it though. Don‘t want to upset their corporate sponsors. The other problem is that labour codes and hiring practices are a Provincial and Territorial responsibility, if I‘m not mistaken.

 

[Pikache]

Hmmm... Doesn‘t the employer have a ‘need to know‘ of where else you are employed?

If he asks you to work on a certain day/night and you are doing stuff w/ army, what are you suppose to say, a lie?

 

[Marauder]

Down side i can see with that is an employer simply not giving a reservest a job or passing them up for someone else not in the military because they dont want to have to hold the job position for someone who leaves for a year.

As opposed to any Joe Bloggins off of civvie street who can take 6+ months off for paternity leave after banging the wife and cranking out a rugrat? IIRC, the Liberals are looking to extend maternity/paternity leave up to year if they get their way.

Different reasons for an absence, but the end result is the same; a job slot goes unused, and the person who temporarily vacated it is still getting paid. If anyone proposed to stop hiring women of an age where they could become pregnant, that business would be *out* of business by the end of the week. But, since the troop wants fulfill himself by soldiering instead of changing nappies, no dice. And that is bullsh!t.

I await the flames from those "more enlightened" than I.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Good point about the maternity leave thing i didnt even consider that.
It sure is bull**** but it doesnt stop the fact that a lot of people are ignorant about the military.

The average employer would probably see some kid whos only work experience is mcdonalds and the militia and think about everything going on in the world and figure ‘hey its not worth it‘ and just pick someone else.

I think 1 or 3 (maybe both) RCR tried doing something with paternity leave for the guys. They had a considerable number of male soldiers take time off for the leave. I think thats one of the reasons reserves were taken into the battalions for back fill.

 

[RoyalHighlander]

Just an interesting anecdote, about being in the military. When I arrived in Calgary years ago, I was looking for work. Well what i had done for many years was drive transport. Well this one job came up and I appplied for it. It came down to 4 people in the end. And in the end I got that job. one time I asked him, why me, as 2 others semmed to have the back round also to fill the postition. Well he told me that he had been a Major in the CF, and my qualifications were just as good as the other 2. his deciding factorwas that I was EX military, and that we had to look out for our own.
Allmost like being a Free Mason huh??? LMAO

 

[muskrat89]

In the US, employers have more than a "plan" to keep reservists - it‘s the law. Law aside, I have never seen an employer in the US turn away, or resent and employee because they were in the Nat Guard or Reserves. I think they actually feel like they are doing something patriotic. In Canada, I never (apparently) got treated different for being a Reservist, but definitely it would be nice if some education for employers went along with any legislation....

 

[Jarnhamar]

I still doubt this will fly. Theres no real requirement for it. In the united states units/soldiers from the reseres are called to active duty. They have to report and have to leave their job. They have no choice so it makes a good balance. They have to go so their jobs have to be safe for them to return to.
In canada units will never be called to active duty and soldiers agument the regular force through choice. Since they are not being make to go over seas why should their job be held for them.

 

[ender]

First off, we do have some job protection. If we are called up in case of a war of disaster, we now have job protection. It‘s recent legislation, snuck by after Sep. 11th.

I‘m not sure if job protection for reservists would be advantageous. Some companies might not hire you if you are a reservist. Given strong anti-military bias in Canada, job protection might be the excuse they need not to hire you.

It is impractical to tell soldiers not to tell prospective employers that they are reservists. I am looking at spendig my fourth summer with the military this summer. My only other job was a stint at the the grocery store which I quit so I could take a tasking. My resume would look pretty blank if I left off my military experience.

Some major employers have made voluntary deals whereby they will grant military leave. I think this is the way to go. Mandatory leave for all reservists might do more harm than good.

 

[NMPeters]

It‘s not legislation yet. Bill C17 has just gone through it‘s second reading in parliament. That happened either last week or the week before. It still has to go through a third reading before a motion passing the legislation is made. If and when this does pass, this legislation will only protect the jobs of reservisits if they are called to duty through an Order in Council. It does not protect them should they wish to volunteer for an operational rotation. That is why the Canadina Forces Liaison Council (CFLC) is there promoting support for the Reserve Force. And even though the US has its legislation, they are finding that employers are engaging in prejudicial hiring practices and they have formed an organization called ESGAR (I think) - Employer Support to the Guard And Reserves (something like that). In fact, the CFLC molded themselves after this organization.

Interesting, though, considering the numbers that are being thrown around for reserve augmentation to Afghanistan is 20% for Roto 0. I can only imagine what will be required for Roto 1.

 

[Eowyn]

Our main problem seems to be retention.   Unlike in the USNG, Canadian reservists can clear out any time they want.   If I remember right, reserve units lose on average 14% of their personnel every year.   That means a regiment of 300 would have to recruit 42 new soldiers every year just to break even.

On part to retention, especially for the Support trades, is the length of the courses.  Unless you are a student with the summer off, it very hard for the troops to get trained.

 

[mdh]

I"ll second Eowyn on that point. Without real job protection it's difficult to expect reservists to take several weeks off at a time and maintain a professional career.  However the militia is trying to address that problem by offering training in two week blocks - the only down side is that it takes forever to get qualified for your MOC, since CAP-R, for example, requires three, two week blocks.  I think the Army National Guard does it differently by staying with a two week training system in the summer - along with the one or two weekends per month. Perhaps Major Baker has some insight on how the Guard trains - I would be interested in getting more details on how we compare in accommodating working folk, cheers, mdh