RMC with fiance and baby??

[KellyB]

Hi there,

My fiancé is thinking of attending RMC for Business Admin. I am trying to decide if this is the right move for our family. We currently live in Hamilton where he works full time, making $15/hr and I work part time making $15/hour, we also own a home here and my mother watches our daughter while I'm working. Our daughter is turning 1 in a couple of weeks so will still be quite young when/if this happens.
I understand the first year especially is incredibly demanding. Do you think the lifestyle and demands of my fiancé would still allow him to have an active part in his daughters life? What is the salary of a first year student? We could rent our home out here which would give us about $200/month after expenses. I could work but then I would need to get daycare for my daughter. Would it be possible for all 3 of us to live off of his salary and the $200/month from our rental? We wouldn't be able to live in residence so would need to rent a property off campus, would they help us out with this or would we be on our own? We already have a vehicle so he would be able to get to and from school.
What is the rate of pay once you have completed the 4 years of school and are employed by the government?
He has yet to talk to a recruiter, has just got information from his father who works for DND. I want to educate myself on this first before I agree for him to see a recruiter.

ANY information you could give me would be great. Thank you

 

[Motard]

for pay info -> http://www.forces.ca/en/page/payscales-131#officersregular-1

and that pretty much covers it since all your questions are about money.


As for letting him go see a recruiter, he should have gone the moment he become interested in this path. It can be a long process taking months or years and no one has to commit to anything until the final step of accepting an offer. Going to a recruiter would help with any concerns you might have, go with him if you like.

 

[krimynal]

the best answer are probably gonna be from a recruiter itself , or from someone that is at RMC right now.

First of , let me tell you that the average salary usually amounts towards 500$ a month ..... ( that is if you go to the RMC , there is a way to do ROTP in a Civil University but let's keep the RMC track )

That salary is for the student itself , living ON-campus , no child , etc.

When I wanted to go to RMC I asked if it was possible for my girlfriend to follow me ( would be fiancé ) they told me that in my first year at St-Jean , they wouldn't allow off-campus ( some rare exception might occur )

I doubt you would be able to live off only his salary , but we never know !

I thought about RMC for a long time, finally decided to do a degree in a civil university , while going in the reserve , then switch to the regular forces after my degree , that way I could do a degree , have an apartment with my girlfriend , have a part-time job and still be able to serve in the forces.

At the end of the day , it's a big decision

 

[krimynal]

for pay info -> http://www.forces.ca/en/page/payscales-131#officersregular-1

and that pretty much covers it since all your questions are about money.


As for letting him go see a recruiter, he should have gone the moment he become interested in this path. It can be a long process taking months or years and no one has to commit to anything until the final step of accepting an offer. Going to a recruiter would help with any concerns you might have, go with him if you like.

That is a great advice , you could go with him to a recruiter , bring a list of questions , and that way you both will know what you are looking at , the best way to get a best picture for you both , is for both of you to go together ......

 

[KellyB]

You're right that majority of my questions are about money as I am worried that we would go and have no money for our daughter.

His original plan after high school was to go to RMC but then he met me and we had a baby and he no longer felt it was possible. Now he is back at this line of thought so I feel this is something he is truly interested in doing.

Let me get something straight though - only your first year prep is in Saint-Jean right? Then you go to Kingston?

So based on the link you sent me he would be making $1536/month and I'm assuming income tax and CPP would be deducted from this so the take home would be about $1000/month? I would clearly need to find a job and put my daughter in daycare. In Kingston I feel it wouldn't be too difficult to find a job but what about in Saint-Jean?

Thank you so much for your answers.

 

[krimynal]

for someone from any other place except Quebec city , you only do 1 year in st-jean ( prep year ) then you switch to kingston .... 1536$ a month , that is right , you have to withdraw food , books , etc. etc. etc. etc. .... at the end of the day , it gives you something in the range of 400 to 600$ a month , that is for someone living ON Campus , keep in mind that OFF campus residence are NOT a promise ..... you can ask , and depending on a bunch of different things , you can MAYBE , if you are LUCKY , get 1 for you and your family ....

 

[George Wallace]

Why don't you just stay in your current job and location until such time as you are married and he has finished RMC?

 

[KellyB]

I can't afford to carry the mortgage, prop. taxes, insurance, utilities, expenses on my wage alone. We spend about $3000 a month on all our expenses where we currently are and I only contribute about $1000 a month while he takes care of the rest. There is the option of moving into my parents though, but how much time would he have off? Would our daughter even know who he is after his 4 years at school? If that is our only options I honestly don't know if it is worth it.

We have the option of selling our house, that would give us about $35,000 after mortgage penalties but we worked so hard to save up a down payment to buy it in the first place that I would hate to do that, it would be starting off at square one all over again so I would really prefer to keep the house and rent it out so we're still gaining equity.

I think we really need to see a recruiter to find out our options.

If ANYONE has been in this situation or has gone to RMC with their family I would LOVE to hear about your experience.

Thank you

 

[SeaKingTacco]

My advice is that your husband needs to speak to recruiter, who can discuss all of the options with him.

RMC is really (at it's heart) designed to take  a 18 year old kid out of high school, pay them beer money and give them a degree while they live in quarters.  I understand that the CF has moved on since I went to Military College and we cannot prevent people who are married and with children becoming cadets at RMC (that used to be the case when I joined in 1985), but at the end of the day, you will have to live as a family for 4 years on a salary that is probably minimum wage (at best), if he is even competitive and selected for RMC.  That is not something I would do, if I were in your position.

There may be other, better ways for him to join the CF and accomplish his goals.  See a recruiter.

 

[Motard]

Unless he's really stuck on the officer path NCM is another option, the pay is much better in the beginning (nearly double that of OCDT).

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

KellyB,

I am a graduate of RMC (Class of 2010), I also did prep year in 2005 so I can speak about that as well.  Firstly, when you apply to join the CF you are not applying to RMC specifically, you are applying to the Regular Officer Training Program (ROTP).  It is up to the CF to decide whether you get sent to RMC or if you are already accepted to another civilian university then you can go there.

Given your present family situation my advice to you would be to go to a civilian university through the ROTP program (Military will subsidize your education for you).  This way your husband can still work part-time during the school year and they go on his training in the summer.  I will re-iterate what SeakingTacco said about RMC being designed for 18 year olds fresh out of school.  The program is very demanding and time intensive as you don't just commit to doing school, you are basically expected to live and breath the military college lifestyle while you are there and this would be very hard for someone with a family to accomplish IMO.

That being said, while the OCdt salary is very low their are allowances for people with families etc... that goto the College.  I know for a fact that if you are an OCdt and have a child you get something like $800 extra a month to help you get by. 

My recommendation would be for your husband to investigate what trade he wants to do in the military.  Whether you go to civi university or RMC does not matter as once you finish training and enter your actual occupational field the fact you went to civi u or RMC is pretty much irrelevant.  On top of this your husband needs to think long and hard about this because he will owe time after he finishes and 13 years of your life (4 or 5 in school followed by 8 in the forces) can be a very long time.  Once he determines what trade he wants speak with a recruiter, their are advantages & disadvantages of having an RMC degree but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.

 

[Loachman]

The standard advice is "Talk to a Recruiter" (already given), and "Read through older threads and use the Search Function". That should answer a lot of questions before you even think of them.

Some serious financial planning is also in order.

Yes, his disposable income will be small for the first four years, but it will increase dramatically following that. You can revisit the pay scale to see where this can lead.

You could combine some of your possible courses of action and live with your parents while renting your house out, at least initially, thus earning some money, reducing costs, and preserving your down-payment.

He will miss a fair amount of time with you and your daughter, but there are going to be lengthy absences during his career as well. That is part of our life-style. Everything is a compromise: while there are significant sacrifices to be made, they are balanced by significant rewards.

Another option is civilian university (RoyalDrew beat me to it).

 

[PMedMoe]

I know for a fact that if you are an OCdt and have a child you get something like $800 extra a month to help you get by.

[off topic] Seriously? [/on topic]

 

[MJP]

That being said, while the OCdt salary is very low their are allowances for people with families etc... that goto the College.  I know for a fact that if you are an OCdt and have a child you get something like $800 extra a month to help you get by. 

Can you drop a ref for that?  I can't think of one allowance off the top of my head that the CF gives to someone just because they have kids and might be economically disadvantaged. 

The only thing that I have observed for RMC folks with a wife and/or kids is the ability to live out (a la PMQ or on the economy)

 

[dapaterson]

I suspect the "extra" was the difference between what a single member was paying, and the fact that married members were not paying R&Q, plus were receiving Separation Expense.  With the recent policy changes, marreid members would contineu to not pay accomodation, but would no longer receive Separation Expense, and would now be paying for rations.

 

[KellyB]

Do ALL recruits have to do the year in Saint-Jean? And then is it 3 or 4 years in Kingston?

I know there are other options with a higher pay but he is intent on getting a degree in the process. You have all been very helpful!

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Can you drop a ref for that?  I can't think of one allowance off the top of my head that the CF gives to someone just because they have kids and might be economically disadvantaged. 

The only thing that I have observed for RMC folks with a wife and/or kids is the ability to live out (a la PMQ or on the economy)

Well considering an RMC Cadet salary is $1400 month before taxes and deductions its pretty much impossible to raise a kid and look after yourself on that without incurring significant amount of debt and financial hardship.  I can't drop a ref and I'm not a clerk so i would need to do some research but my roommate in my second year had a child and I believe he received extra pay because of it.  Let me do some research and get back to you as maybe I am just talking out my ass right now.

Back on topic, I still wouldn't recommend RMC to anyone who has a family.  ROTP Civvy side is a much better route IMO because you can still work and make some cash on top of your OCdt salary you are paid.  KellyB if you or your husband want to talk to someone about what the school is like and what you can expect when you get there PM me and I would be more then happy to answer any questions about life at the school.  I also have only been out of the institution for about three years so I am still pretty current on whats going on around there.

 

[jwtg]

Do ALL recruits have to do the year in Saint-Jean? And then is it 3 or 4 years in Kingston?

I know there are other options with a higher pay but he is intent on getting a degree in the process. You have all been very helpful!

I'm at RMC and have friends who are in similar situations to yours, so my information is pretty current.  PM me for more specifics if you'd like, but here's the lowdown:

Some recruits will be sent to CMR St. Jean for first year; others (usually from Quebec) will be sent to CMR St. Jean for 'prep' year, and then will stay at CMR for 'senior' year, which is the equivalent of RMC 1st year.  Many recruits will go to RMC for their first year.  If your fiance is not from Quebec, then his offer (if he succeeds in selection) would be for Civ U, CMR, or RMC.  It's usually a take it or leave it kind of offer, with no flexibility; however, your circumstances might allow you to request ROTP Civ U exclusively- talk that over with a recruiter.  In my opinion, as an RMC cadet, ROTP Civ U is the far, far, better option for an OCdt with a child and fiance/spouse.

I suspect the "extra" was the difference between what a single member was paying, and the fact that married members were not paying R&Q, plus were receiving Separation Expense.  With the recent policy changes, marreid members would contineu to not pay accomodation, but would no longer receive Separation Expense, and would now be paying for rations.

This is entirely accurate.  There is no pay bonus or extra allowances for being married or having children while at RMC; however, those few live off campus do not pay R&Q so they receive the full OCdt pay (minus deductions/taxes/etc.) so it seems like they make more than the guys paying R&Q, except for most of them, rent + groceries > R&Q, so most of the live-offs actually make less than the live-ons.

RMC has recently adopted a position of maintaining a live-in program exclusively; that means that CFRC's are supposed to brief applicants on the fact that they will not be permitted to live-off campus.  The best advice I can offer is to not expect that your fiance will be permitted to live off campus if he attends RMC; there is no guarantee of that, and, from my view, it is highly unlikely.  (Could be worse- at USAFA and Westpoint, and probably Annapolis, but I haven't had the chance to ask anyone from there, I've been told you cannot have any dependents in order to enroll.)

Bear in mind that 1st years and 2nd years are also limited to something like 12 after duty passes (basically permission to go into town on weeknights) per month, so even if you follow him to Kingston and he just chooses to spend all his evenings/nights at your place to simulate living together, there is no guarantee he'll be able to do that.  Also, you'd have to pay rent for where you live, and he'd have to pay R&Q at RMC.

It's rumored, and seems to be the case, that next year, first years will not be allowed to have cars at RMC.  That would make commuting very difficult.

If he goes to RMC, he can expect to have most weekends off (after FYOP, of course) but there will be some duty/training weekends, and the occasional tasking that he will be required to stay at RMC for.

I strongly recommend that you try hard for ROTP at a civilian university.  This would mean that he makes ~1500$/month (before deductions) and has his tuition, books and supplies subsidized at a civi university of his choice.  He would do training in the summers, but other than that, live a mostly normal student life.

The alternative is for you to stay in one place while he goes off to RMC.  This would mean basically 4 years of separation (except for the odd weekend, as well as Christmas, reading week, Easter, and a couple weeks of summer leave) and could be hard on your family, but that's for you to evaluate.

Do not assume that he can come to RMC and you can both live together somewhere off campus; that is simply not the reality at RMC these days.  Unless there are shocking changes made between now and when he applies, I don't foresee the situation being any different any time soon.  The vast majority, if not all, incoming OCdts will have to live in shacks like the rest of us at RMC.

Also, apologize if I had a Freudian slip anywhere here and called your fiance your husband.

 

[jwtg]

Well considering an RMC Cadet salary is $1400 month before taxes and deductions its pretty much impossible to raise a kid and look after yourself on that without incurring significant amount of debt and financial hardship.  I can't drop a ref and I'm not a clerk so i would need to do some research but my roommate in my second year had a child and I believe he received extra pay because of it.  Let me do some research and get back to you as maybe I am just talking out my *** right now.

The only people who get paid more are those with prior experience (reserve or reg) who are in a different pay category. The only other way people have been receiving extra pay is either by having R&Q waived for being married, and separation expense, if separated from spouses. 
Not sure what the implications of the recent changes to SE/IR policy are.

Back on topic, I still wouldn't recommend RMC to anyone who has a family.  ROTP Civvy side is a much better route IMO because you can still work and make some cash on top of your OCdt salary you are paid.  KellyB if you or your husband want to talk to someone about what the school is like and what you can expect when you get there PM me and I would be more then happy to answer any questions about life at the school.  I also have only been out of the institution for about three years so I am still pretty current on whats going on around there.

Couldn't agree more with your assessment. 

 

[KellyB]

I'm at RMC and have friends who are in similar situations to yours, so my information is pretty current.  PM me for more specifics if you'd like, but here's the lowdown:

Some recruits will be sent to CMR St. Jean for first year; others (usually from Quebec) will be sent to CMR St. Jean for 'prep' year, and then will stay at CMR for 'senior' year, which is the equivalent of RMC 1st year.  Many recruits will go to RMC for their first year.  If your fiance is not from Quebec, then his offer (if he succeeds in selection) would be for Civ U, CMR, or RMC.  It's usually a take it or leave it kind of offer, with no flexibility; however, your circumstances might allow you to request ROTP Civ U exclusively- talk that over with a recruiter.  In my opinion, as an RMC cadet, ROTP Civ U is the far, far, better option for an OCdt with a child and fiance/spouse.
This is entirely accurate.  There is no pay bonus or extra allowances for being married or having children while at RMC; however, those few live off campus do not pay R&Q so they receive the full OCdt pay (minus deductions/taxes/etc.) so it seems like they make more than the guys paying R&Q, except for most of them, rent + groceries > R&Q, so most of the live-offs actually make less than the live-ons.

RMC has recently adopted a position of maintaining a live-in program exclusively; that means that CFRC's are supposed to brief applicants on the fact that they will not be permitted to live-off campus.  The best advice I can offer is to not expect that your fiance will be permitted to live off campus if he attends RMC; there is no guarantee of that, and, from my view, it is highly unlikely.  (Could be worse- at USAFA and Westpoint, and probably Annapolis, but I haven't had the chance to ask anyone from there, I've been told you cannot have any dependents in order to enroll.)

Bear in mind that 1st years and 2nd years are also limited to something like 12 after duty passes (basically permission to go into town on weeknights) per month, so even if you follow him to Kingston and he just chooses to spend all his evenings/nights at your place to simulate living together, there is no guarantee he'll be able to do that.  Also, you'd have to pay rent for where you live, and he'd have to pay R&Q at RMC.

It's rumored, and seems to be the case, that next year, first years will not be allowed to have cars at RMC.  That would make commuting very difficult.

If he goes to RMC, he can expect to have most weekends off (after FYOP, of course) but there will be some duty/training weekends, and the occasional tasking that he will be required to stay at RMC for.

I strongly recommend that you try hard for ROTP at a civilian university.  This would mean that he makes ~1500$/month (before deductions) and has his tuition, books and supplies subsidized at a civi university of his choice.  He would do training in the summers, but other than that, live a mostly normal student life.

The alternative is for you to stay in one place while he goes off to RMC.  This would mean basically 4 years of separation (except for the odd weekend, as well as Christmas, reading week, Easter, and a couple weeks of summer leave) and could be hard on your family, but that's for you to evaluate.

Do not assume that he can come to RMC and you can both live together somewhere off campus; that is simply not the reality at RMC these days.  Unless there are shocking changes made between now and when he applies, I don't foresee the situation being any different any time soon.  The vast majority, if not all, incoming OCdts will have to live in shacks like the rest of us at RMC.

Also, apologize if I had a Freudian slip anywhere here and called your fiance your husband.

Thank you sooo much, your post was incredibly helpful and I enjoyed your desiderata quote in your signature

How do you go about getting into a CivUniversity? My (limited) understanding is you basically can't unless you're already attending a university or RMC doesn't offer your program. Is this correct?