Saluting... just curious

[SpinDoc]

I was just wondering, when did our salute switch from palms out (like the Brit army) to palms down (like the navy(?)/Yanks)? I get the impression that during WWII it was still done with palms out, so I am assuming it was between then and now that the form was changed.

Did the unification have anything to do with it?

I remember someone telling me that the reason the navy saluted without the palms out was to hide the dirty palm (from back in the days of coal and whatnot or something) when saluting... Am I way off base there?

 

[2Lt_Martin]

Navy --> Dirty Palms

Too many one liners to list here, let the flame war begin.

The periscope was greasy...no really it was.

 

[Lawrence]

I believe it was sometime in the 60‘s that the switch was made.

 

[SpinDoc]

Now, was there a rationale behind the change? Was everyone doing the palms down anyways so they decided to make the switch or was it a decision-by-committee thing?

I‘m curious to know if it happened overnight...

 

[SNoseworthy]

In the 1960s, the Government was trying to give the CF a more Canadian image, by moving away as much as possible from British traditions...would I be correct to assume that saluting was one of the ways of making the CF more "Canadian"?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Possibly. More likely, though, you need to remember what Unification means. The three forces were unified into one in the late 1960s. The three services were abolished, and the Canadian Forces created in their place. One uniform was worn by all three services - CF Green - for the land, air and sea elements. No more air force or navy blue.

Along with the new CF uniform came the adoption of the naval salute by all elements of the new CF, as a standardization measure.

 

[Harry]

Correct there about the adaptation of the Naval Salute.

It was adopted as the Navy is the senior service and when the Drill and Ceremonial was being re-written the preponderance of drill, albeit based upon the Commonwealth standard, adhered to the Navy drill regs as they where the only ones without unit quiffs.

Now for a brief history byte. The Canadian Navy was up until the 50‘s predominantly officered by Royal Navy Officers. There are three known below deck actions in the history of the Canadian Navy.

Lots of stuff about the dirty palms etc, hence the nick for sea dogs of ‘Hairy Bags‘. However, to qoute my father, "You couldn‘t salute like a pongo or you would smash you knuckles on a bulkhead, so straight up and straight down, like a man would. Not some articulating gesticulating pouff in a skirt‘.

Guess all that crusty old salt never leaves once you have been to sea.

Readt Aye Ready

 

[SpinDoc]

I KNEW there was no such thing as a stupid question I‘m learning tons just by asking.

While we‘re on the subject of Commonwealth, would I be right to assume that saluting only when you have your headdress on is a Commonwealth thing? Americans seem to salute every which way, with or without their hats, etc etc...

And speaking of headdresses, I see sometimes in pictures and stuff (of Brits, Isrealis) that people sometimes tuck their berets under their epaulette... I never see that happen here. Is it a faux pas? Big nono? I gotta tell ya, it seems like an awfully convenient place to store the beret... well, used to be anyways... could still do it with the CADPAT in front but that seems "less right" than tucking it up on your shoulder...

 

[combat_medic]

I don‘t know about the beret, but I see a lot of guys put their Balmoral on their front pocket (pocket button goes through hanger on rear of balmoral, pocket gets buttoned up), and the Glengarry can be stored down the front of the DEU tunic with the tails hanging out the top.

Maybe in the next uniform change they should add a "headdress storage compartment". Seems like just the kind of thing the CF would waste a million dollars on.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

US Marines never salute without hats either IIRC. Nor do the Germans (or at least, the Wehrmacht never did).

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Combat Medic - we do the same with our tam o‘shanters in Calgary, but we do it from the map pocket button, on the outside of the thigh. Weird.

The glengarry, FS Cap and beret are commonly seen under the epaullette in WW II photos, but it has fallen from "fashion". I once got yelled at in a restaurant during Stampede by a junior officer (visibly drunk) who saw me with my glengarry under my shoulder strap. Haven‘t seen it done too often, but that is just one man‘s experience.

 

[sgt.shmedly102]

US Marines never salute without hats either

ALWAYS WITH THE MARINES!!!!

They way people in other countries talk, you would think we should just scrap all our other services and just have the Marine Corps. H*ll, you‘d think we already did.

Now that that‘s out of my system...

Americans seem to salute every which way, with or without their hats, etc etc...

We do not salute without headgear, unless one is reporting to an officer in doors. Generally, we only salute out doors, and as one must wear headgear outdoors, one is covered when one salutes. The only times one would salute indoors is reporting (as above) or when under arms, in which case one is also covered. That is also the only time one is covered while in doors.

So you guys salute like us? D*mn, and here I thought we were special. Too bad, Drill Sergeants love telling new recruits that the reason the US is the only country to salute palm down is because we‘re the only country to have never lost a war. NCO‘s always have such a unique understanding of history.

 

[onecat]

_________________________________________
So you guys salute like us? D*mn, and here I thought we were special. Too bad, Drill Sergeants love telling new recruits that the reason the US is the only country to salute palm down is because we‘re the only country to have never lost a war.
_________________________________________

This just bugs me so I have to point out that Yes you lost a war. The war 1812-14, because if you hadn‘t there would be no Canada. It must be the way history is taught down there, but if you read up on the history of 1812-14; it would be pretty clear that USA lost it. Three US invasion that fail, a lost at the battle of frenchtown, burn of the white house.

Its okay to have some folklore in your history, but its just wrong to say that you‘ve never lost a war.

 

[combat_medic]

...and Vietnam, and the Alamo, and the Bay of Pigs...

but those don‘t REALLY count, do they?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Drill Sergeants love telling new recruits that the reason the US is the only country to salute palm down is because we‘re the only country to have never lost a war. NCO‘s always have such a unique understanding of history.

The war 1812-14

...and Vietnam, and the Alamo, and the Bay of Pigs...

No one ever said that traditions, or the explanations for them must be built upon supportable objective truth. And what recruit would challenge the explanations issued by his DI? ;-)

 

[Dacier]

Wasn‘t Texas independant at the time of the Almo? Also, the Bay Of Pigs invasion didn‘t include American soldiers, though they were supplied by the Americans of course.


Anyway, it could also be argued that Canada has never lost a war.

 

[sgt.shmedly102]

Ah ha! I knew someone would bite. Now, as to the War of 1812, I know it‘s the only war you can claim as a victory, but... well, we‘ve already been down this road. I argued this point already on this site, you should be able to find it under "a student‘s veiw of our history." I have read about the war between the US and BRITAIN (I don‘t remember Canada being a soverign nation then) and stand by all my points already made in the aforementioned thread. BTW I could just as easily make the same accusation about ‘what they teach up there‘.

As for the others...

Vietnam: never lost on the battlefield. Show me a major engagement won by the NVA/VC.

Alamo: that was Texas, not America. If you don‘t think the distinction matters, go tell a Texan. And a more glorious loss one would be hard pressed to find. Besides, Scots still celebrate Collodin (sp?) don‘t they?

Bay of Pigs: again not Americans. And please don‘t bring up anything having to do with that dumb-*ss Kennedy. No one would like him today if he hadn‘t had the good sense to get shot.

And it is true that traditions do not have to be based on truth. How many soldiers in your Highlander regiments are Scottish, let alone of Highland origin? And of course no recruit is going to correct his DS (how many times do I have to tell you, it‘s Drill SERGEANT) not that the kid know‘s anything anyway.

 

[Dacier]

Winning the war is more important then winning the battles. Leaving Vietnam could not be seen as an act of victory for the Military.

I hope Iraq and Afghanistan won‘t be another Vietnam. The people won‘t accpet Western Leadership no matter how great we think it is.

Not saying the war shouldn‘t be fought, but long term I think were in for decades of dangerous peace keeping missions.

 

[sgt.shmedly102]

When US forces left in 1973, the war was over, there was a peace treaty signed, and South Veitnam was still a soverign nation; mission accomplished. After we were gone, the NVA launched another offensive, we didn‘t intervine, and SVN fell.

In anycase, the war was lost by the politicians and the generals. The grunts on the ground were never beaten.

 

[onecat]

My point was and is that your wrong to say the United States has never lost a war. It is true that we were a colony at that point, but the major battles were fought by the local units and Native tribals loyal to the British. I searched for your thread but didn‘t find it, so I have no idea what you points were on that topic. If the United States had won, there would be no Canada period.