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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

OldSolduer

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They really need to stop using 'sexual misconduct' as a catch all though; big difference between rape, sexual assault and telling an off-colour joke that crosses the line.
Rape is not misconduct. You are correct about that. Its a crime of violence and sex is just the means to dominate. That needs to be reiterated and the sentencing should reflect that.
 

YZT580

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Don't get me started - Winnipeg school districts were on this kick. Girls in high school were dressing "too provocatively " and one of our local radio stations had a call in session about it.
Many of you are aware that Winnipeg has a pretty strong "Bible Belt" kind of population in and around it so a lot of calls were calling for dress codes for girls in HS.
Of course I had the right to remain silent but not the ability. I called in and told the lot of them that the Taliban and them had a lot in common, including restricting how women can dress. So if there is a dress code for girls how about a code of behavior for HS boys?
The hypocrisy stuns me at times.
Why not a code of behaviour for HS boys indeed. Great idea 'cause both boys and girls need to know that there is a standard of behaviour and that crossing the line has repercussions. After all, we are on page 106 talking about just that: a standard and the repercussions and unless we are willing to set a national standard and stick by it it is all futile.
 

mariomike

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Many of you are aware that Winnipeg has a pretty strong "Bible Belt" kind of population in and around it so a lot of calls were calling for dress codes for girls in HS.
I didn't grow up in the Bible Belt. But, that's the way it was when I went to school.

I remember someone telling me about a young woman who worked in one of our offices. Her male supervisor politely suggested she wear something "more appropriate".

She then announced to one and all, "He wants me to wear a Burka!" To which he apparently replied, "No. But, maybe something in between. " :)
 

lenaitch

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Civilian system should investigate military misconduct claims for now, ex-judge says​

Morris Fish says military justice system must embrace victims' rights before taking on sexual misconduct cases​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/morris-fish-military-justice-sexual-misconduct-1.6047898

Interesting. Not sure how that works for crimes committed overseas, but makes sense for in country items. Assuming that means there would be no legal support for the defendant from JAG though, and if it happens on a tasking outside normal work area the defendent is also going to be foxed for all the travel back and forth.

They really need to stop using 'sexual misconduct' as a catch all though; big difference between rape, sexual assault and telling an off-colour joke that crosses the line.
I'm not sure I'm clear on what he is recommending (recognizing it is a media item, not the report). In terms of criminal allegations, at the 'input', first response end, is he recommending yet another parallel 'military-but-not military national investigative service mandated for a narrow group of offences, or is he envisioning the local police service of jurisdiction? That will put pressure on local police services, victim services, court services etc. that will require funding.

And yes, crimes committed outside of Canada would seem to pose a problem.
 

Kilted

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Don't get me started - Winnipeg school districts were on this kick. Girls in high school were dressing "too provocatively " and one of our local radio stations had a call in session about it.
Many of you are aware that Winnipeg has a pretty strong "Bible Belt" kind of population in and around it so a lot of calls were calling for dress codes for girls in HS.
Of course I had the right to remain silent but not the ability. I called in and told the lot of them that the Taliban and them had a lot in common, including restricting how women can dress. So if there is a dress code for girls how about a code of behavior for HS boys?
The hypocrisy stuns me at times.
If the Public schools starting wearing unifroms they wouldn't have that problem. Plus it would get rid of a bunch of other issues.
 

Blackadder1916

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I'm not sure I'm clear on what he is recommending (recognizing it is a media item, not the report) . . .

I haven't had time to get through much of Justice Fish's report, but here it is.

Report of the Third Independent Review Authority to the Minister of National Defence
https://s3.amazonaws.com/tld-docume...nister of national defence (pdf, english).pdf

I've extracted the following from the Summary of Findings and Recommendations. The subject is discussed in greater detail in the body of the report.
SEXUAL MISCONDUCT*

Sexual misconduct in the CAF remains persistent, preoccupying and widespread – despite the CAF’s repeated attempts to address the problem.

As mentioned above, the government has taken notice. Days before the deadline for delivery of my Report, the government announced in its Budget a major initiative to combat sexual misconduct in the CAF. It promised greater independence to the processes of reporting and adjudicating incidents of sexual misconduct within the military and enhanced support services to victims, including access to free, independent legal advice.

My recommendations were prepared before the Budget was released. Yet they speak largely to the same objectives: to make the military justice system more responsive to the welfare, security and health of CAF members; more protective of the autonomy of victims; and better equipped to monitor both individual accountability and organizational compliance with the CAF’s governing rules and stated objective.

In enacting Bill C-77 and its Declaration of Victims Rights, Parliament decided to afford victims involved in the military justice system the rights they would enjoy in civilian proceedings under the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights. 820 The relevant provisions of Bill C-77 should be brought into force as soon as possible. Until this is done, the military justice system should not investigate and prosecute alleged sexual assaults. The NDA should also be amended to incorporate, in substance, the various rights and protections afforded by the Criminal Code to victims and to persons accused of sexual offences.

CAF members have a duty to report all service offences to their chain of command. The duty to report is meant to allow the leadership of the CAF to take steps to eradicate or at least reduce the occurrence of sexual misconduct within its ranks. But it has unintended effects and causes undesirable results for victims. It impacts on their autonomy and, I have been told, risks their exposure to reprisals, ostracization and pressures to withdraw their complaint. The duty to report should be removed for victims of sexual misconduct, their confidants and the health and support professionals consulted by them. A working group should also consider the removal of the duty to report of witnesses of sexual misconduct.

Victims of sexual misconduct who nonetheless wish to report must be provided the support they need to do so – without fear of harm to their well-being, careers or personal lives.

Strengthening the independence of the Sexual Misconduct Response Centre (“SMRC”) would help attenuate these concerns. Providing free, independent legal advice to victims would encourage more frequent engagement with the legal process, thereby protecting their own safety and that of other CAF members.

Restorative justice approaches have been part of the civilian criminal justice system for decades. They promote a sense of responsibility for the offenders, who acknowledge the harm caused to their victims. They also provide the opportunity for the victims and perpetrators to work in tandem toward accountability and restitution. This would, according to the SMRC, foster justice outcomes that better meet the needs of victims, offenders, and the CAF. I strongly support the introduction of restorative justice in the military justice context.
 

TCM621

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I didn't grow up in the Bible Belt. But, that's the way it was when I went to school.

I remember someone telling me about a young woman who worked in one of our offices. Her male supervisor politely suggested she wear something "more appropriate".

She then announced to one and all, "He wants me to wear a Burka!" To which he apparently replied, "No. But, maybe something in between. " :)
What is work appropriate behaviour is a totally separate issue from sexual misconduct. Having your tits falling out of your shirt is as unprofessional as coming to work in tighty whiteys.

We also have to address the fact that a lot of women's fashion is designed to draw attention to women in a sexual appealing way. This will necessarily lead to more male attention which may be more than is appropriate. Luckily, in the CAF we don't have that because almost everyone's ass looks the same in a set of combats.
 

mariomike

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Luckily, in the CAF we don't have that because almost everyone's ass looks the same in a set of combats.
Where's that pic of Clint Eastwood cringing when I need it?! :)
 

FJAG

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Where's that pic of Clint Eastwood cringing when I need it?! :)
This one?

Clint Eastwood Coffee GIF


🍻
 

Navy_Pete

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If the Public schools starting wearing unifroms they wouldn't have that problem. Plus it would get rid of a bunch of other issues.
As someone who attended a public school with uniforms I'm laughing pretty hard at this assumption. Also ref: weird sailor moon/school girl fetishes are based on actual school uniforms.

Thought it was pretty great though, made school less of a fashion show competing for cool labels and made getting dressed in the am really easy, but sure it made no actual difference otherwise.
 

daftandbarmy

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As someone who attended a public school with uniforms I'm laughing pretty hard at this assumption. Also ref: weird sailor moon/school girl fetishes are based on actual school uniforms.

Thought it was pretty great though, made school less of a fashion show competing for cool labels and made getting dressed in the am really easy, but sure it made no actual difference otherwise.

Oh, so you've been to 'School Dinners' in London then?

I've never been.... that much :)

By the way, this dessert is listed on the menu as the 'Knee Trembler' as I recall:

Sonia Moore Waitress At Restaurant School Dinners Dressed As Schoolgirl And Sitting In Lap Of Unnamed Male Customer. She Served Prince Andrew When A Party Of Naval Officers Visited The Club 1984.

 

CBH99

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As someone who attended a public school with uniforms I'm laughing pretty hard at this assumption. Also ref: weird sailor moon/school girl fetishes are based on actual school uniforms.

Thought it was pretty great though, made school less of a fashion show competing for cool labels and made getting dressed in the am really easy, but sure it made no actual difference otherwise.
I can second this.

As someone who went to a private school from Grade 8 to Grade 12, with uniforms... everything you said above is bang on. (We were a pretty tiny school though, about 100 kids from Kindergarden all the way up to Grade 12. Our entire high school was I think 14 kids at it's peak.)

Sexual misconduct wasn't really an issue ever.

However, did the uniforms discourage young teenagers from thinking the way young teenagers do? Nope! Schoolgirl skirts & blouses, as 'pleasant as they looked' to the public, were also pleasant in the eyes of us male students also. (We were all also obsessed with Warcraft 2 at the time, and would constantly play each other on the LAN network without our teachers figuring it out) :sneaky:

Getting ready in the mornings was easy. "Do I want to look like a Christmas Elf, in September...or...bah, I guess Christmas elf it is."


(Our uniforms, for the guys, were GREEN khaki pants & a burgendy collared T-shirt made out of the most uncomfortable fabric they could find.) 🎄
 
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