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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

Weinie

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So let me explain in the hopes that maybe you can actually offer your own insights instead of what you posted.

you think this might be some elaborate way of sticking it to the man. So you are saying that a man who has been a consummate professional his entire career, decides that his master plan is going to golfing with a disgraced CDS and the CRCN and clear that golf course so no one would know with the hopes that it gets leaked in some weird show of defiance at what you think he sees as a purge of GOFOs in some larger plot. And you think that this is the best way to do that. Ok…

he would have stuck it to the man way more by standing at a podium resign and announcing that he no longer had faith in “insert name here” and that he can longer serve in an institution or for a gvt that is doing “insert here”

The biggest issue with what you propose is that he has put two of his friends back on the front page. Was that good for Vance’s mental health? Or would his explanation not be genuine about a mental health check? He and the CRCN have issued apologies for their actions and taken ownership of that. Still part of the master plan? See the various holes in what you are prop


If we believe that then we must assume that he knowingly intended to cause damage to the institution that is already crisis. Do you think he would intentionally damage the CAF reputation further? Because that golf trip just added to the CAF leadership credibility issue. I honestly don’t think he intended to do that. Which leaves us with a lapse in judgement.

I have no reason to doubt his intentions in regards to Vance’s mental health. “Hey let’s go golfing, get your mind off things, we’ll make sure no one is around to bug you”

I prefer to think this was lapse in judgement. Because the alternative is that he is knowingly trying to burn down the whole place on his way out, lied about the reason for the golf outing and I don’t think for a second that you believe that.
The above and a toonie will get you a medium double double at any Timmies in Canada.
 

Mick

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Of course!!! The classic "devious, career-ending, golfing-based, apologize-and-take-indefinite-medical-leave" scheme! That'll show the government.

Seems like exactly the kind of move an articulate and professional officer - known for his integrity - would make.

If only VAdm Norman had devised such a plan.

Or maybe it was just a lapse in judgement, however well-meaning his intentions were, for which LGen Rouleau has taken responsibility.
 

brihard

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I think Remius makes good points actually. I think there’s good reason that many of us think Rouleau is a bastion of professionalism and integrity. He’s smart enough to grasp the further damage this can cause to the institution. I don’t think he would deliberately act to hurt CAF. I therefore infer that this played out differently from how he thought it would. I believe him when he presents this as looking out for the well being of a colleague and friend... It’s awfully lonely at the top.

I have no doubt other games are being played here. But I don’t think Rouleau would act to discredit the institution. I think he respects it and the troops too much for that.
 

Good2Golf

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I have no doubt other games are being played here. But I don’t think Rouleau would act to discredit the institution. I think he respects it and the troops too much for that.
Haven’t seen anyone imply MR was acting to discredit the institution. Have seen people incorrectly infer that others have done so. Not the same thing.

I take MR’s full statement as he intended it. That, however, doesn’t mean that there aren’t factors at play related to the activity, that most people don’t appreciate now, but that will eventually come to be appreciated more widely as being part of a larger realization of issues within the Department.

Time will tell.
 

Mick

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Haven’t seen anyone imply MR was acting to discredit the institution. Have seen people incorrectly infer that others have done so. Not the same thing.

I take MR’s full statement as he intended it. That, however, doesn’t mean that there aren’t factors at play related to the activity, that most people don’t appreciate now, but that will eventually come to be appreciated more widely as being part of a larger realization of issues within the Department.

Time will tell.
Wouldn't resigning (in protest or otherwise) be more effective?

LGen Rouleau seems to be direct and articulate - what do you suppose is achieved by explaining, apologizing and stepping aside? Note that he directly states what his intentions were, the unfortunate optics, and why he is now stepping aside.
 

Good2Golf

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Wouldn't resigning (in protest or otherwise) be more effective?
Maybe you think so. I don’t know if you’re right.

If more comes from further investigation into the matter, maybe that will be of greater benefit to address the root cause of the overall situation.

LGen Rouleau seems to be direct and articulate - what do you suppose is achieved by explaining, apologizing and stepping aside? Note that he directly states what his intentions were, the unfortunate optics, and why he is now stepping aside.
Frankly, the fact that MR took this COA indicates to me that for whatever reasons, he assessed it as the most appropriate for the situation, the apparent branching of which, the majority here are attributing to some level of either incompetence or hubris.

Personally, I’m not joining the masses to write MR off as having fumbled the ball. I may very well be wrong, but having spent a few tours in Ottawa, including not insignificant interaction with a number of Central Agencies, I’m quite willing to go out on a limb and believe that this whole thing isn’t over by a long shot.

The power dynamics at play are likely more intricate than most here believe.

$0.02


Regards
G2G
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Right, those options have always have existed, as we all know, but I’ve never seen anyone removed from a CoC outside terminating service. You always answer to someone in one way or another, do you not? That seems to be a CoC to me.
This happens all the time. I've recommended multiple CAF members for this very process. All it takes is a bit of paperwork and concurrence from the Medical community.


The CAF remains administratively and medically responsible for you but your job becomes preparing for your transition out of the CAF.

We don't know what Mike Rouleau's medical conditions are. That's his business and nobody needs to know why he is in the Transition Group.
 

Haggis

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Yet a much-more-recent claim regarding a certain prime minister, including a named victim, has yet to see any meaningful reaction, consequences, or apology:

Courtesy of Internet Anagram Server: "Just A Rude Unit".
"The editorial in the Creston Valley Advance suggested that the day after the incident, Trudeau offered an apology of sorts: "I'm sorry," he is quoted as saying. "If I had known you were reporting for a national paper I never would have been so forward." So, he did apologize, but only for groping the reporter, not the woman.
 

brihard

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Maybe you think so. I don’t know if you’re right.

If more comes from further investigation into the matter, maybe that will be of greater benefit to address the root cause of the overall situation.


Frankly, the fact that MR took this COA indicates to me that for whatever reasons, he assessed it as the most appropriate for the situation, the apparent branching of which, the majority here are attributing to some level of either incompetence or hubris.

Personally, I’m not joining the masses to write MR off as having fumbled the ball. I may very well be wrong, but having spent a few tours in Ottawa, including not insignificant interaction with a number of Central Agencies, I’m quite willing to go out on a limb and believe that this whole thing isn’t over by a long shot.

The power dynamics at play are likely more intricate than most here believe.

$0.02


Regards
G2G
I put a lot of stock in your experience and insight, so I hope you’re right. I don’t have the necessary insight into that level of the institution to take this at anything other than face value. Either way I’m inclined to be as charitable to MR as possible, and I hope somehow he ninjas his way through this. I know that I’ll believe anything he says about his own conduct unless I get compelling reasons not to. He has earned that.
 

FSTO

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Wouldn't resigning (in protest or otherwise) be more effective?

LGen Rouleau seems to be direct and articulate - what do you suppose is achieved by explaining, apologizing and stepping aside? Note that he directly states what his intentions were, the unfortunate optics, and why he is now stepping aside.
Historically resigning to protest government policy hasn't worked in the slightest in Canada. A plethora of GOFOs resigned during the unification of the armed forces of Canada, didn't change the direction of the government at all. Since then there have been several officers who have resigned for one reason or another. VAdm Chuck Thomas comes to mind (yes, the father of the current DM) and his actions barely registered. Canadians don't care about the CAF, we could self immolate and most Canadians would barely notice.
 

Remius

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Well since we are Theory crafting. Maybe Admiral Norman is behind all of this. After all, when he went through his purge from the system, many here stated he would get back on those that did him wrong. Maybe the fall of Vance and company was orchestrated by him and all this collateral damage is his doing…👽
 

Loachman

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"The editorial in the Creston Valley Advance suggested that the day after the incident, Trudeau offered an apology of sorts: "I'm sorry," he is quoted as saying. "If I had known you were reporting for a national paper I never would have been so forward." So, he did apologize, but only for groping the reporter, not the woman.

Almost.

He was sorry that he groped a reporter for a national paper, implying that he was concerned about the possible extent of the coverage but would not have cared were she only a reporter for a mere local paper.

Regardless, nobody else could have shrugged off such an assault so casually and been allowed to get away with it by media or enough voters.
 
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