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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

Remius

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My experience is that the Canadian public does care for the CF, no matter some inappropriate actions taken by some.
I think it is the type and level of "care". My time in recruiting and doing many public events representing the CAF has opened my eyes to just how much the general population does not actually know or care to know. Basic stuff we in the CAF take for granted.

  • that we are a peacekeeper army
  • confusion about us being in Iraq vs Afghanistan
  • the difference between the branches
  • our military history
  • what we actually do vs what they think we do
  • that everyone in green is infantry
  • that everyone in blue is a pilot
  • that everyone in the navy is a commissionaire or vice versa (that we actually even have a navy)

Just a few examples.

They care about how we are treated, when soldiers die etc. but that's it. It doesn't go much deeper. While most CAF types know who General Rouleau is and his reputation, I am sure his name escapes most Canadians and that he's just another general stepping down from an organisation that is looking more and more effed up.
 

QV

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Canadians do not pay attention to the CAF beyond the big stories of the day. Few would know what the points of going to Rwanda or the Balkans were if there had been no major massacres. Few would have paid any attention to matters in Afghanistan if there had been no bodies coming home. Many just want to brag on the achievements of others - Canadian soldiers wearing blue hats, Olympic athletes winning medals. They don't want to hear about war crimes, failures, scandals, reprehensible behaviour.

For the past 50 years, Canada has been governed roughly 60% of the time by a party that, during that time, has ranged from indifferent through hostile to spending federal revenues on defence. The other party isn't hostile but its stated intentions founder on its apathy.

The long game seems to be to slowly bleed away capability. A loss or weakening of capability then becomes an excuse for stepping back and contracting a bit more. Excuses to shift the culture from soldiery to HR-centric uniformed civil service are also welcome. Every crisis or scandal is a chance to promote a couple more items from that job jar, and for politicians to jockey for promotion.
Almost like decades of influence by adversaries of the West is slowly bearing fruit.
 

QV

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Destabilize the CAF, demoralizing our forces, sounds like psyops to me.


To be honest I think we are our own worst enemy at times.
It's naive to think in those limited parameters. You're only partly right when you state we are our own worst enemy. We are, because we've allowed years of foreign influence by adversaries to shape our current situation. We've known it this whole time but did nothing to fix it.

For example this has been going on for the better part of three decades maybe more, no significant scandals since then, no dismantling... what do you think could be achieved in 30-40 years of soft but prolific influence by our adversaries? Do you think we would be stronger or weaker as a result?


Apologies for the tangent...
 

OldSolduer

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Not sure I understand what that means. Do you have concrete examples?
From what I saw in 38 years service a lot of people were wrapped up in projects, surveys, and the administrative nausea those things entail that weren't really helping the CAF focus on its primary mission. A lot of people seem to have thought the role of the CAF was to peace keep and we all know that is not the primary mission.
 

Remius

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It's naive to think in those limited parameters. You're only partly right when you state we are our own worst enemy. We are, because we've allowed years of foreign influence by adversaries to shape our current situation. We've known it this whole time but did nothing to fix it.

For example this has been going on for the better part of three decades maybe more, no significant scandals since then, no dismantling... what do you think could be achieved in 30-40 years of soft but prolific influence by our adversaries? Do you think we would be stronger or weaker as a result?


Apologies for the tangent...
No apology needed. But you should know I said “at times”
 

Remius

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From what I saw in 38 years service a lot of people were wrapped up in projects, surveys, and the administrative nausea those things entail that weren't really helping the CAF focus on its primary mission. A lot of people seem to have thought the role of the CAF was to peace keep and we all know that is not the primary mission.
this ^^
 

daftandbarmy

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Think of a number between 1 and a million... add a couple of zeroes


Fortin's allegations may prove politics supersedes all in handling of military's misconduct crisis: expert​


Fortin claims that his firing was decided not by his military superior but by the defence minister, the health minister and the prime minister's office

The allegation of political interference in the dismissal of the general heading Canada’s vaccine rollout, if true, may prove that political calculations “rule” how the government manages the sexual misconduct crisis in the military, says one eminent military expert.

“Houston, we’ve got a problem,” thinks Michel Drapeau, a well-known military law expert who has represented dozens of CAF members in sexual misconduct cases.

He was reacting to a request by Maj.-Gen Dany Fortin for a judicial review by the Federal Court of the government’s decision to fire him from his position as vice-president for operations at the Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) on May 14.

A few days later, military police revealed in a statement they had referred a sexual misconduct investigation to Quebec prosecutors. To date, no charges have been laid.

In his application for judicial review, Fortin claims that he was not afforded proper due process before his removal, and that his firing was decided not by his military superior but by the defence minister, the health minister and the prime minister’s office. He is asking that the government be ordered to reinstate him to his secondment at PHAC or an equivalent post for a Maj.-Gen.

None of his claims have been tested in court and the federal government has not yet filed a response to his application.

To justify his request, Fortin explains that he was informed by acting Chief of Defence Staff Lt.-Gen Wayne Eyre back in March that military police had launched an investigation into him regarding an alleged sexual misconduct that occurred over 30 years ago. At the time, he was told by Eyre and PHAC President Iain Stewart that it was “business as usual” and that he was presumed innocent.

 

Haggis

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I understand your point, but LCol Taylor isn't as high profile as the VCDS.
So, do we wait and see what happens if one or more of the 30-odd female GO/FOs decide to publicly resign in protest?

Will that make a difference?

Probably not.
 

SupersonicMax

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From what I saw in 38 years service a lot of people were wrapped up in projects, surveys, and the administrative nausea those things entail that weren't really helping the CAF focus on its primary mission. A lot of people seem to have thought the role of the CAF was to peace keep and we all know that is not the primary mission.
So, we should bin any new ideas and embrace the status quo? If not, what is the threshold for good enough idea (without the benefit of hindsight)?

FWIW, peace keeping is one of the primary roles of the CAF defined within Strong, Secure, Engaged, our current defence policy along with the protection of Canada and North America, and the participation to NATO operations.
 

Haggis

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From what I saw in 38 years service a lot of people were wrapped up in projects, surveys, and the administrative nausea those things entail that weren't really helping the CAF focus on its primary mission. A lot of people seem to have thought the role of the CAF was to peace keep and we all know that is not the primary mission.
When I worked at NDHQ, we handled a ton of "surveys", RFI's reports and "administrative nausea" that seemed unimportant to those completing them but were used to inform political decision makers and guide defence policy. Many were legislated requirements and many were not.
 

Good2Golf

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FWIW, peace keeping is one of the primary roles of the CAF defined within Strong, Secure, Engaged, our current defence policy along with the protection of Canada and North America, and the participation to NATO operations.
Which is why we committed to strongly to MINUSMA.

…oh, wait…
 

SupersonicMax

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Which is why we committed to strongly to MINUSMA.

…oh, wait…
The lack of commitment is not proof that it isn’t one of the primary missions envisioned by the Government. Just look how committed to the defence of Canada (and much required NORAD modernization)... Yet, no one can argue it is not one of our primary mission, arguably the most important one....
 

Mick

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So, do we wait and see what happens if one or more of the 30-odd female GO/FOs decide to publicly resign in protest?

Will that make a difference?

Probably not.
No, but a high-profile VCDS resigning while outlining specific grievances seems much more likely to "make a difference" instead of apologizing, taking responsibility while providing an explanation of intent, and not outlining any grievances whatsoever.
 
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