• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,225
Points
940
Just a quick point: if you look at the style of cause of Fortin's affidavit in the Fed Ct, he is bringing an application for judicial review against the Minister of Health, the Minister of National Defence, the Prime Minister, and the Clerk of the Privy Council. He is not suing the A/CDS.

Note that these applications come under s 18.1 of the Fed Court Act and pursuant to s 18.1(2) must be brought within 30 days of the decision of a federal board, commission or other tribunal being communicated to the applicant.

At first blush the argument that he should have first exhausted other review processes is specious because there is no process that could grant relief -- and there is a limitation period -- the safe course is to bring an application immediately.

On the other hand, I wonder if the individuals named as respondents, either alone or in the aggregate constitute an "other tribunal". I have done some very, very, very superficial research and came up with the following:

judicial review under section 18 must be given a broad and liberal interpretation, as a result of which a wide range of administrative actions will fall within the Court's judicial review mandate. It is also clear that judicial review is no longer restricted to decisions or orders that a decision maker was expressly charged to make under the enabling legislation. Rather, judicial review will extend to decisions or orders that determine a party's rights, even if the decision at issue is not the ultimate decision. The word "matter" in section 18.1 (anyone affected by the matter may apply for judicial review) is not restricted to "decisions or orders", but encompasses any matter in regard to which a remedy might be available under section 18 or subsection 18.1(3).

That may not be the final word but I'll hang my hat on it for the time being. Law is fun --- and flexible.

🍻
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
2,834
Points
1,060
Does no one care that the PM was accused of sexual assault? And dismissed it? If he was Cpl let alone a BGen, he would have been run out of town a long time ago

Luckily for him, God is apparently a Liberal, and a teflon peddler:


Don Martin: Teflon Trudeau dodges trouble with a gift from the Greens​


Having covered politics for four decades, I can’t recall a prime minister or premier who has broken or deferred so many pledges, endured so many controversies, and morphed into the polar opposite of their promised fresh-face start only to retain decent levels of popularity.

For his 2,040 days as prime minister, questionable conduct, bad decisions and scandals have slid off Trudeau with a slipperiness that makes Teflon work like Superglue.

 

OldSolduer

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,151
Points
910
Does no one care that the PM was accused of sexual assault? And dismissed it? If he was Cpl let alone a BGen, he would have been run out of town a long time ago
His father was the same way. Oh fuddle duffle.
One of his sons was arrested for possession of marijuana and the charges “went away”. I recall our Dear Leader saying that.
Whatever you think of marijuana at that time possession was illegal. So obstruction of Justice was one of Pierre’s talents.
 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
546
Points
910
Does no one care that the PM was accused of sexual assault? And dismissed it? If he was Cpl let alone a BGen, he would have been run out of town a long time ago
Those that care wouldn't have voted for him anyways. The rest are blinded by his celebrity and other attributes that have nothing to do with his political skills or leadership ability so are willing to forgive his transgressions in order to maintain their illusion of him. He leads a personality cult that just happens to govern a nation.
 

Blackadder1916

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
335
Points
1,030
Does no one care that the PM was accused of sexual assault? And dismissed it? If he was Cpl let alone a BGen, he would have been run out of town a long time ago

Just the circumstances of this thread would suggest that a lot of serving members (including Cpls, Snr NCOs, WOs and GOFOs) who engaged in the same alleged conduct in the same time frame weren't run out of town a long time ago.
 

ModlrMike

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
420
Points
930
Those that care wouldn't have voted for him anyways. The rest are blinded by his celebrity and other attributes that have nothing to do with his political skills or leadership ability so are willing to forgive his transgressions in order to maintain their illusion of him. He leads a personality cult that just happens to govern a nation.

Sounds like you're describing a former POTUS.
 

Loachman

Former Army Pilot in Drag
Staff member
Directing Staff
Reaction score
450
Points
980
Amazing those allegations disappeared quickly too, wonder what they did to make it disappear

The CBC was aware of the incident, which, if I remember, was first brought up to the general public by (the sometimes-useful) Warren Kinsella, but sat on it until they absolutely no longer could.

His young victim did, eventually, confirm that the incident, about which she had written in her newspaper the following day, occurred, but did not want to press the matter.

Had she, we'd all be better off.

Maybe.

His father was the same way. Oh fuddle duffle.
One of his sons was arrested for possession of marijuana and the charges “went away”. I recall our Dear Leader saying that.
Whatever you think of marijuana at that time possession was illegal. So obstruction of Justice was one of Pierre’s talents.

One of his sons was also photographed holding a "weapon" that his father had recently prohibited as the family stood at the door of the CF Boeing 707 that returned them from a trip to somewhere in South America.

The "weapon" was described in the prohibition order as a "Yaqui blow-gun".

Anybody who has ever bought a section of common pipe from The Home Depot to repair or upgrade their home plumbing system has unwittingly violated that law.

Or not, as nobody ever defined a difference between a "Yaqui" blow-gun or any other blow-gun.

Stupid rules.

Stupid rule-makers.
 

ballz

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
149
Points
710
Am I the only one that is thinking Fortin has taken the most expensive legal route possible. Who cares if he submitted a grievance and the CDS denied it, but the CDS was in fact being influenced, he'd still have the option for a judicial review afterward... and I don't really see how the government could litigate against that, they'd just have to go right into the judicial review.

The way this is occurring he's going to be up to his neck in legal bills before he even gets to the judicial review, if he doesn't just spend a bunch of money only to have this thrown out / be told to submit a grievance.
 

ModlrMike

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
420
Points
930
The tricky thing is the CDS is the subject of the grievance. In that context, he can't render a decision on his own acts, and still uphold the tenets of the greivance system. If you look at DAOD 201-1, QR&O 7.01 and 7.02, and NDA s.29 (1) and (2), you will see that there is no mechanism available to grieve an act or decision made by the CDS. I would therefore submit that the requirement for MGen Fortin to first submit a grievance cannot be enforced, as there is no ability for him to actually do that IAW the regulations.
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
480
Points
860
I hope the evidence they used in their decision to pursue action against Fortin is rock solid, and serious enough to justify going after someone 30 years later.

I don’t know what the allegation is, so perhaps it is.
 

Good2Golf

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
1,634
Points
1,160
Am I the only one that is thinking Fortin has taken the most expensive legal route possible. Who cares if he submitted a grievance and the CDS denied it, but the CDS was in fact being influenced, he'd still have the option for a judicial review afterward... and I don't really see how the government could litigate against that, they'd just have to go right into the judicial review.

The way this is occurring he's going to be up to his neck in legal bills before he even gets to the judicial review, if he doesn't just spend a bunch of money only to have this thrown out / be told to submit a grievance.
Do you have knowledge of the payment arrangement between Fortin and his lawyer? I would have guessed retainer up front and % of settlement upon award, but if you have more insight, we’d be interested to know what you know.

Thomas G. Conway seems to be competent in litigation.
 

Oldgateboatdriver

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
213
Points
680
Am I the only one that is thinking Fortin has taken the most expensive legal route possible. Who cares if he submitted a grievance and the CDS denied it, but the CDS was in fact being influenced, he'd still have the option for a judicial review afterward... and I don't really see how the government could litigate against that, they'd just have to go right into the judicial review.

The way this is occurring he's going to be up to his neck in legal bills before he even gets to the judicial review, if he doesn't just spend a bunch of money only to have this thrown out / be told to submit a grievance.

Actually, Ballz, you are thinking in criminal law terms. This is a civil law suit. On every motion and at the end of the case, the court rules on legal costs and can award them to the prevailing party. In Ontario the usual basis is "condemning XXX to pay or do XX, with cost", which result in the winning lawyer filing a bill of cost on behalf of his client, which is then "taxed" (meaning evaluated for reasonableness) by a taxing master, who sets the amount due (in Ontario, that is usually something close to approx. 60% of what a reasonable average amount of time at a reasonable average lawyers hourly rate would be billed to a client in Toronto + all actual set expenses). However, in cases of unjust dismissal or anything affecting a person's reputation, if the court finds any indication of bad faith on the part of the employer or libeller, the court can order the costs on a "party and party" basis, meaning the lawyer simply supplies all of his/her actual billing to her client to the taxing master and he has to accept them in full.
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
480
Points
860
I hope the evidence they used in their decision to pursue action against Fortin is rock solid, and serious enough to justify going after someone 30 years later.

I don’t know what the allegation is, so perhaps it is.
I posted more in my post above, I’m not sure what happened to the rest of it.

But basically what Jarnhammer said.

Political interference in which actions - which were clearly pre-meditated from the sounds of the various discussions had between the PCO & various people. And political pressure to pursue ‘something’ - which ultimately has ruined this man’s career and reputation. And for what? What did it accomplish, even if he is found to have done whatever ‘misconduct’ they are alleging from 30+ years ago?

As we don’t have the speedo is released to us yet (unless I’m wrong, I have been working a lot lately and may have missed it) - it’s misconduct, not assault. And after a very public & swift destruction of his future career and reputation, they leave in the hands of crown prosecutors “to see if they think they can prosecute”?

Wtf… shouldn’t the government’s own lawyers be able to look at something like this and say “yes, it is prosecutable” or “no, this doesn’t meet the CC definition of a criminal offence and therefore we cannot prosecute.” Like shouldn’t you know whether this is something the crown can pursue BEFORE you take action? You know, gather & verify your info and confirm possible courses of action, first?

Did Adm. MacDonald not teach them anything? Do they enjoy using our tax dollars (in which we now pay a LOT of) so they can squander it on paying people to shut their mouth & go away… usually after THEY are the ones who started the fight?


When it comes to this particular situation, I really do think the government/crown needs to be transparent and open. The two things Trudeau always goes on about - this is a great time to start.

- Release the details of the matters to the public. Let the public see for ourselves what the allegations are, and how founded they are. (Since the PM & MND are elected officials, using taxpayer dollars, to do all of this with)

- Why is this coming to light now if it happened 30+ years ago? Did the complainant just file the complaint now? If so, why? Is it a bunch of fabricated & twisted BS the government has concocted to remove someone they didn’t like? Details.


I realize there is obviously a process, and I want Gen. Fortin to be given every right & privilege he is entitled to. But in this case - and the others revolving around sexual misconduct - the public has a right to know some of the details about that which is plaguing our senior staff.

As for the PM… I’ve never disliked a PM anywhere near this much. I’ve been frustrated with most, impressed with very few. But I’ve never truly disliked one like this before.

Lead by example. Got frisky when you were younger? Own it like a good human, we all grow and mature - and part of that is looking back on certain things from our past selves and thinking “Man, that was so dumb, or so wrong.” If you can’t do that yet, chances are you’re still dumb or still a dirtbag.


Under the circumstances - do what needs to be done in order for us to know the details of what’s being alleged. Droplets here and there don’t cut it. Respect the rights & advantages afforded to an accused, give them due process, and do what has to be done so the public can see for themselves what the shenanigans are really all about.

<sorry for rant>

0.02
 
Top