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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

McG

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My experience (which is admittedly not with the PPCLI) is that senior serving members are not tightly involved in the day-to-day of the regimental mafia. The regimental colonel (who the media originally linked to supporting the letter) runs the regiment.
 

Halifax Tar

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My experience (which is admittedly not with the PPCLI) is that senior serving members are not tightly involved in the day-to-day of the regimental mafia. The regimental colonel (who the media originally linked to supporting the letter) runs the regiment.
When you say Regiment do mean the whole of its battalions ? Eg 1, 2, 3, and 4 RCR's LCols all report to their respective brigade commanders and then a regimental Col. as well ? This is starting to sound like office space... Did you use the TPS report cover sheet ? lol
 

Ostrozac

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Could this whole debacle with Dawe, Hamilton, and Eyre be a regimental mafia thing ? I keep seeing this Regimental Guard thing in the last article. Are we seeing what could be a real issue with our combat arms regimental cultures and organizations ? Closing ranks and trying to protect their own.

No trolling here and I have no dog in the fight, just an outside question.
Regiments, particularly infantry regiments, are quasi-tribal organizations that include both serving and formerly serving members and have characteristics that cross-cut the formal chain of command.

At it’s best, this system encourages the unit cohesion essential for success on the battlefield. At its worst, this system can be secretive, insular, encourage cronyism and acts in its own interest, not necessarily the interest of the forces as a whole.

There‘s a reason why the term used is a regimental ”mafia”. But the regimental system, like all tribal systems, is inherently resilient. Ours has survived the CEF mobilization model, two conscription crises, unification and Somalia. I’d say the odds are it will continue.
 

Halifax Tar

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Regiments, particularly infantry regiments, are quasi-tribal organizations that include both serving and formerly serving members and have characteristics that cross-cut the formal chain of command.

At it’s best, this system encourages the unit cohesion essential for success on the battlefield. At its worst, this system can be secretive, insular, encourage cronyism and acts in its own interest, not necessarily the interest of the forces as a whole.

There‘s a reason why the term used is a regimental ”mafia”. But the regimental system, like all tribal systems, is inherently resilient. Ours has survived the CEF mobilization model, two conscription crises, unification and Somalia. I’d say the odds are it will continue.
So who does career management for infanteers both NCM and Commissioned ? Is it the same as mine where all 2500-3K of us are managed by 2 MWOs and WO based in Ottawa who move us around as needed ?

I mean thinking outside the box here, but if the PPCLI has a deficiency in a skill set and the RCR had an over abundance could people be shuffled off as required ? If not maybe this is another issue, we've allowed little fiefdoms to grow roots that aren't always working in the best interests of the CAF or Canada as a whole, instead putting regimental allegiance first.

I understand I am treading on sensitive ground. And I am only trying to understand the organization.
 

SeaKingTacco

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When you say Regiment do mean the whole of its battalions ? Eg 1, 2, 3, and 4 RCR's LCols all report to their respective brigade commanders and then a regimental Col. as well ? This is starting to sound like office space... Did you use the TPS report cover sheet ? lol
No- the Regimental Colonel has no operational command role on the Battalions. That function is provided by Brigade. The various Regimental senates (I am about to simplify) concern themselves largely with buttons, bows, history and traditions.
 

Halifax Tar

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No- the Regimental Colonel has no operational command role on the Battalions. That function is provided by Brigade. The various Regimental senates (I am about to simplify) concern themselves largely with buttons, bows, history and traditions.
Isn't that what DHH and the Dress Committees are for ?
 

Halifax Tar

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Somebody has to feed that stuff to DHH and dress committees.

DHH has about a dozen people (maybe even less now) for the entire CAF.

And like I said- I simplified.
Fair, and I appreciate your info.

I guess where I am scratching my head is the RCN doesn't have some senate or guard who lobby's on behalf of our "buttons and bows". We do have a formal system to present things up the CoC where the RCN CPO will take them to the national committee for debate if required. Why does a single cap badge need so much more representation than whole other services ?
 

SeaKingTacco

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So who does career management for infanteers both NCM and Commissioned ? Is it the same as mine where all 2500-3K of us are managed by 2 MWOs and WO based in Ottawa who move us around as needed ?

I mean thinking outside the box here, but if the PPCLI has a deficiency in a skill set and the RCR had an over abundance could people be shuffled off as required ? If not maybe this is another issue, we've allowed little fiefdoms to grow roots that aren't always working in the best interests of the CAF or Canada as a whole, instead putting regimental allegiance first.

I understand I am treading on sensitive ground. And I am only trying to understand the organization.
Career management is done by the various career managers in Ottawa, guided by the COs of units/schools. Each Regimental Senate might develop a wish list of who should get moved where and promoted/developed, but they are not the ones doing the posting/promoting. That is the Career shop in Ottawa- just like everyone else.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Fair, and I appreciate your info.

I guess where I am scratching my head is the RCN doesn't have some senate or guard who lobby's on behalf of our "buttons and bows". We do have a formal system to present things up the CoC where the RCN CPO will take them to the national committee for debate if required. Why does a single cap badge need so much more representation than whole other services ?
You are actually wrong. There is a similar function conducted at Naval Board.
 

Lumber

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I mean thinking outside the box here, but if the PPCLI has a deficiency in a skill set and the RCR had an over abundance could people be shuffled off as required ? If not maybe this is another issue, we've allowed little fiefdoms to grow roots that aren't always working in the best interests of the CAF or Canada as a whole, instead putting regimental allegiance first.
No, infanteers almost never swap regiments. Once a Patrica, always a Patricia, for example. It's not like us in the Navy, TAR, where our sense of belonging to a ship and it's culture lasts about as long as our posting there.
 

Halifax Tar

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You are actually wrong. There is a similar function conducted at Naval Board.
Really ? Well I have never heard of this. I stand corrected.

Career management is done by the various career managers in Ottawa, guided by the COs of units/schools. Each Regimental Senate might develop a wish list of who should get moved where and promoted/developed, but they are not the ones doing the posting/promoting. That is the Career shop in Ottawa- just like everyone else.
So are soldiers merited within their battalion, regiment as a whole, or trade as in Infanteers ?
 

Blackadder1916

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When you say Regiment do mean the whole of its battalions ? Eg 1, 2, 3, and 4 RCR's LCols all report to their respective brigade commanders and then a regimental Col. as well ? This is starting to sound like office space... Did you use the TPS report cover sheet ? lol

SKT simplified it. Here's the full monty.


And "The" other regiment 2017_Regimental-Standing_Orders

Pour le Régie you'll have to wade through their site. Royal 22e Régiment
 

Ostrozac

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So who does career management for infanteers both NCM and Commissioned ? Is it the same as mine where all 2500-3K of us are managed by 2 MWOs and WO based in Ottawa who move us around as needed ?

I mean thinking outside the box here, but if the PPCLI has a deficiency in a skill set and the RCR had an over abundance could people be shuffled off as required ? If not maybe this is another issue, we've allowed little fiefdoms to grow roots that aren't always working in the best interests of the CAF or Canada as a whole, instead putting regimental allegiance first.

I understand I am treading on sensitive ground. And I am only trying to understand the organization.
Note that I am no longer a serving member of The RCR, but when I was, career management, particularly at the NCO level, was handled very much by regiments, and not Infantry Corps-wide. I remember when they trawled the battalions in the early 2000’s looking for TOW Gunners to volunteer for a new anti-armour company they were forming (what became E Coy, LdSH) and the offers were very much phrased as — if you do this you will rebadge to PPCLI and they will handle your career from there. Rebadging between regiments occurred, but was viewed as a serious matter.
 

daftandbarmy

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Ok what is a Regimental Guard ? Or a Regimental Council ? Why does a regiment need a group to decide its strategic guidance and policy direction ? Shouldn't it be taking that from the CAF or Army doctrine, like I would imagine, the remainder of the military ?

No trolling here and I have no dog in the fight, just an outside question.

Dude, you clearly don't 'get' the Infantry ;)

black and white 90s GIF
 

ballz

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Ok what is a Regimental Guard ? Or a Regimental Council ? Why does a regiment need a group to decide its strategic guidance and policy direction ? Shouldn't it be taking that from the CAF or Army doctrine, like I would imagine, the remainder of the military ?

Because nepotism...
 

TCM621

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Because nepotism...
They are just really out in the open about the fact that retired Col and Generals have power. I have seen the Col Commandant shut down a panel of Cols and Gen officers with the threat of a few phone calls to Ottawa. This happens in every O Mess and Wardroom of every base but the Combat Arms just elect a person to do that and then put him to work.
 
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