Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[trigger324]

Alright, I can concede that. Do you suppose the VCDS is even privy to CFNIS investigations?

I think anything’s possible, if they want it to be. I mean the other guy said he owned the CFNIS and was untouchable. In that chain of command, I’d be leery.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I think anything’s possible, if they want it to be. I mean the other guy said he owned the CFNIS and was untouchable. In that chain of command, I’d be leery.

I think Vance was blowing hard on that point (as CDS). I have never known an MP to give up an investigation. Usually, it is quite the opposite.

 

[brihard]

Since when does the Liberal Party or their apparatchiks get to approve what happens in a private discussion or even who can play golf with whom?

Think about the context of your statement. Take your time and re-read the Canadian Charter of Rights, too.

Out of curiosity, what’s your Charter argument on this one? I’m curious about where you’re going with that.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Out of curiosity, what’s your Charter argument on this one? I’m curious about where you’re going with that.

Assembly and association.

I am pulling my horns in a bit, as I had assumed in the flurry of Senior Officer moves, he had already relinquished VCDS to Gen Allen and was now special advisor the CDS.

 

[dapaterson]

If "RolledSleeves47@aol.com" wants to email or Zoom or even make an old school phone call to check in on how "RandyRoyalJon@hotmail.com" is doing, that's fine. A public outing, on the other hand, provides a poor impression, particularly if someone has previously been alleged to have stated that he controlled the MPs and NIS.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Assembly and association.

I am pulling my horns in a bit, as I had assumed in the flurry of Senior Officer moves, he had already relinquished VCDS to Gen Allen and was now special advisor the CDS.

If a Liberal Minister attends a conservative rally, that person will likely lose their ministry and get punted from the liberal party. There are expectations that come with each and every job. The fact that the golf course was emptied for them is even more suspicious...

 

[trigger324]

Assembly and association.

I am pulling my horns in a bit, as I had assumed in the flurry of Senior Officer moves, he had already relinquished VCDS to Gen Allen and was now special advisor the CDS.

And I was getting at the timing of this round with the involved parties. I couldn’t agree more around the right to assemble and associate, but these days? The optics? They couldn’t have been more oblivious unless they were trying to

 

[SeaKingTacco]

And I was getting at the timing of this round with the involved parties. I couldn’t agree more around the right to assemble and associate, but these days? The optics? They couldn’t have been more oblivious unless they were trying to

None of this makes any sense. We are not talking about stupid people here. They “get” the Ottawa environment and current politics.

 

[OldSolduer]

“Outgoing” gets a free pass? I’m sure he’s turning over to someone

No one is getting a free pass. They have been tried in the court of public opinion and all found guilty

 

[SupersonicMax]

None of this makes any sense. We are not talking about stupid people here. They “get” the Ottawa environment and current politics.

And they attempted to hide Vance’s presence. Yes, they know about the optics and tried to skew the optics.

 

[OldSolduer]

None of this makes any sense. We are not talking about stupid people here. They “get” the Ottawa environment and current politics.

Maybe a palace revolt by the Generals? Maybe some really shitty stuff the PMO has done?

 

[trigger324]

None of this makes any sense. We are not talking about stupid people here. They “get” the Ottawa environment and current politics.

So why do you think this round of golf really may have taken place, right about now? Just three guys getting together for a random round on an empty course?

 

[trigger324]

No one is getting a free pass. They have been tried in the court of public opinion and all found guilty

Re-read the dialogue back there, please

 

[OldSolduer]

Re-read the dialogue back there, please

Your point?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So why do you think this round of golf really may have taken place, right about now? Just three guys getting together for a random round on an empty course?

Nope. I doubt that. But then again- who knows besides those three?

 

[trigger324]

I was going to ask you the same. Do I really have to explain it? SKT made mention of the outgoing VCDS, and I clarified. You missed the point so I asked you to re-read

 

[OldSolduer]

I was going to ask you the same? Do I really have to explain it? SKT made mention of the outgoing VCDS, and I clarified. You missed the point so I asked you to re-read

Roger got it now.

 

[CBH99]

There, FTFY.

Might be a good idea to deepen and broaden the gene pool if we can.

But why?

Isn’t it great when mom & dad are also brother and sister? Inbreeding has never had any sort of negative or odd consequences before... everybody is still treated normally. Right?

Why deepen the senior leadership gene pool if we don’t have to? Things are fine, everything is fine.

< if only I knew how to insert a gif >


(PS - yes, agreed. Let’s give some folks an opportunity to shine, and change things up at the top.)

 

[FJAG]

Alright, I can concede that. Do you suppose the VCDS is even privy to CFNIS investigations?

I think anything’s possible, if they want it to be. I mean the other guy said he owned the CFNIS and was untouchable. In that chain of command, I’d be leery.

The VCDS could be privy if the PM decides that he ought to be informed.

On the other hand the "other guy" never "owned" CFNIS. (We only have an allegation he even said that)

Under s18.5 of the NDA:

18.4 The Provost Marshal’s responsibilities include
(a) investigations conducted by any unit or other element under his or her command; ....

General supervision
18.5 (1) The Provost Marshal acts under the general supervision of the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff in respect of the responsibilities described in paragraphs 18.4(a) to (d).

General instructions or guidelines
(2) The Vice Chief of the Defence Staff may issue general instructions or guidelines in writing in respect of the responsibilities described in paragraphs 18.4(a) to (d). The Provost Marshal shall ensure that they are available to the public.

Specific instructions or guidelines
(3) The Vice Chief of the Defence Staff may issue instructions or guidelines in writing in respect of a particular investigation.

Availability to public
(4) The Provost Marshal shall ensure that instructions and guidelines issued under subsection (3) are available to the public.

Exception
(5) Subsection (4) does not apply in respect of an instruction or guideline, or of a part of one, if the Provost Marshal considers that it would not be in the best interests of the administration of justice for the instruction or guideline, or that part of it, to be available to the public.

This is similar to the authority of the JAG with respect to the DMP with one glaring exception. The JAG must provide a copy of every instruction or guideline made under this section to the MND even if withheld from the public under (5).

Essentially there is a high degree of independence in the DMP and PM but not an absolute one and any "interference" if you will needs to be made public. Note in section (5) that the option to withhold such a guideline rests with the PM and NOT with the VCDS.

These are very subtle points which do protect the justice system (both investigative and prosecutorial from command) interference by requiring any directions or guidance to be in writing and made public BUT one would expect many people simply won't see it that way.

🍻

 

[Good2Golf]

And they attempted to hide Vance’s presence. Yes, they know about the optics and tried to skew the optics.

So say…

One source told The Globe that the Hylands Golf and Country Club was cleared of other golfers so the three men could play on the course without anyone noticing the presence of Gen. Vance.

Ah yes…a source…speaking anonymously no doubt…just says the course ‘was cleared’…leaving the ‘hanging chad’ implication that it was explicitly one of those three men who asked that the course be cleared. Is this a known fact?

It will be interesting to see the facts come out as to who knew what about whom doing what with whomever else, whenever and wherever…