Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[coolintheshade]

Why does all of this always come out late at night?

Ahahahaha.....it's clandestine cos Rouleau (ex SOF) is involved this time. LOL

 

[coolintheshade]

I’ll take conflict of interest for $1000, Alex

Ahahaha...what do you call a senior officer still in uniform, hanging out with an outsed CDS accused of sexual harassment, lying, and claiming to 'own the MP'?

 

[coolintheshade]

Assembly and association.

I am pulling my horns in a bit, as I had assumed in the flurry of Senior Officer moves, he had already relinquished VCDS to Gen Allen and was now special advisor the CDS.

He won't be doing any 'special advising' to the A/CDS after this news break...as the optics is definitely going to look bad, especially with the media now all over this.

 

[OldTanker]

There is something rotten in the State of Denmark. These two LGens are publicly thumbing their noses at the government. To what end? It's one thing to lose your career for a 30-year-old indiscretion, another to be openly and collectively indiscreet as serving 3-stars. Unless of course it was simply an innocent game of golf and they are totally gormless, which opens up another set of questions. I wonder who won? Watch and shoot.

 

[coolintheshade]

There is something rotten in the State of Denmark. These two LGens are publicly thumbing their noses at the government. To what end? It's one thing to lose your career for a 30-year-old indiscretion, another to be openly and collectively indiscreet as serving 3-stars. Unless of course it was simply an innocent game of golf and they are totally gormless, which opens up another set of questions. I wonder who won? Watch and shoot.

Leave Denmark out of this....the nation had a scare yesterday at the Euro championship when their star player Erikssen had a cardiac arrest, but seems to be OK. Anyhoo...reckon Vance had a hole in one? LOL

 

[daftandbarmy]

But why?

Isn’t it great when mom & dad are also brother and sister? Inbreeding has never had any sort of negative or odd consequences before... everybody is still treated normally. Right?

Why deepen the senior leadership gene pool if we don’t have to? Things are fine, everything is fine.

< if only I knew how to insert a gif >


(PS - yes, agreed. Let’s give some folks an opportunity to shine, and change things up at the top.)

 

[coolintheshade]

 

[CBH99]

So say…


Ah yes…a source…speaking anonymously no doubt…just says the course ‘was cleared’…leaving the ‘hanging chad’ implication that it was explicitly one of those three men who asked that the course be cleared. Is this a known fact?

It will be interesting to see the facts come out as to who knew what about whom doing what with whomever else, whenever and wherever…

It could have also been cleared for security reasons?

I have no idea either way. But considering how high profile they all are, the top brass of the CAF - perhaps it was cleared as a security measure, given the focus on Vance in the media?

 

[Good2Golf]

Well, I for one won’t be surprised if things don’t turn out to be 100% the way the story was formed and reported.

 

[TCM621]

Was it consensual? Or maybe (if only some of the times) coerced? That question is really what the investigation is about, is it not?

Unless I missed something, there aren't even claims of coercion from the women involved. If there was a claim that he coerced them by threatening their career, I could see your point. It seems like Vance was a p***y hound and found willing partners among his subordinates. It was wrong for a lot of reasons but there hasn't been any indication of criminal behaviour alleged or proven.

Again, did I miss a pretty major development here? I have friends that have done stupid and illegal shit, as I said I have played sports with convicted criminals many times, and I don't just decide they don't exist because they did something wrong. He slept with a bunch of subordinates, it should have disqualified him from the job as CDS, and especially the head of Op Honour, but not a few hours on the links.

 

[coolintheshade]

Unless I missed something, there aren't even claims of coercion from the women involved. If there was a claim that he coerced them by threatening their career, I could see your point. It seems like Vance was a p***y hound and found willing partners among his subordinates. It was wrong for a lot of reasons but there hasn't been any indication of criminal behaviour alleged or proven.

Again, did I miss a pretty major development here? I have friends that have done stupid and illegal shit, as I said I have played sports with convicted criminals many times, and I don't just decide they don't exist because they did something wrong. He slept with a bunch of subordinates, it should have disqualified him from the job as CDS, and especially the head of Op Honour, but not a few hours on the links.

You're what you decide to surround yourself with i.e. birds of the same feathers flock together. I mean would you hang around with pedophiles/nazis/racists/spouse abusers, or is this different? You claim to associate with convicted criminals. Asking for a friend

 

[Weinie]

You're what you decide to surround yourself with i.e. birds of the same feathers flock together. I mean would you hang around with pedophiles/nazis/racists/spouse abusers, or is this different? You claim to associate with convicted criminals. Asking for a friend

And are you making that leap in severity of association? Asking for a friend also.

 

[CBH99]

You're what you decide to surround yourself with i.e. birds of the same feathers flock together. I mean would you hang around with pedophiles/nazis/racists/spouse abusers, or is this different? You claim to associate with convicted criminals. Asking for a friend

He said he plays sports with some people who have criminal records. (Could be a DUI, bar fight from youth, etc.) He didn't say he hangs out with pedophiles or neo-nazis.

Come on man. Really?

 

[ModlrMike]

Good show. You managed to introduce a straw-man and Godwin in the same post.

 

[CBH99]

Unless I missed something, there aren't even claims of coercion from the women involved. If there was a claim that he coerced them by threatening their career, I could see your point. It seems like Vance was a p***y hound and found willing partners among his subordinates. It was wrong for a lot of reasons but there hasn't been any indication of criminal behaviour alleged or proven.

Again, did I miss a pretty major development here? I have friends that have done stupid and illegal shit, as I said I have played sports with convicted criminals many times, and I don't just decide they don't exist because they did something wrong. He slept with a bunch of subordinates, it should have disqualified him from the job as CDS, and especially the head of Op Honour, but not a few hours on the links.

Nope. You didn't miss any major developments.

One complained about an e-mail sent almost 10 years ago, where he apparently tested the waters by suggesting they attend a creepy clothing optional resort, which she seemed to have ignored and brushed off as a joke. Doesn't seem to be any repeated incidents. (Ofcourse, waiting on release like everybody else.) Was it appropriate? No. She ignored it, and he didn't continue to send similar things after.

She also said she complained following the appropriate channels, hoping it would be handled discreetly, and it would be considered when OP Honour leadership was being reviewed. Seems like a bunch of people tried to pass it off on each other - which resulted in this media attention now. Had various people just done their jobs instead of playing hot potato, it would have been dealt with ages ago.



The other complainant just infuriates me to be honest. She may be a great person, great personality, etc - but in regards to this specific issue - I personally think she's a terrible role model for other women in the CAF who may need to handle a similar situation down the road. (Or are now.) I won't vent right now, but she just pisses me off in such an ugly way. (When it comes to sexual misconduct or sexual assault, I would never victim blame. In this case, however, she should be taking some accountability for their consensual, mutual, on-and-off again affair...unless I missed something big?)

 

[OldTanker]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404244170903068676

 

[daftandbarmy]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404244170903068676

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

― George Orwell, 1984

 

[Jarnhamar]

Or will we see a now-standard "I apologize, I had no idea how this would look ..... I promise to do better" statement.

lol

That's one down.

 

[McG]

Unless I missed something, there aren't even claims of coercion from the women involved.

Nope. You didn't miss any major developments.

So, you must have missed this:

Maj. Kellie Brennan tells MPs Vance said he was ‘untouchable,’ fathered 2 of her kids - National | Globalnews.ca

Brennan is one of the women at the heart of allegations first reported by Global News in February about former chief of the defence staff Gen. Jonathan Vance.

globalnews.ca

Brennan claims there were threats of consequences, though not of physical violence, and she claims that she felt she could not say “no”

 

[Navy_Pete]

lol

That's one down.

I don't get it, how did they think this would go down? It's not like they aren't all really well recognized in the NCR to start with. Vance is a serial adulterer who basically just undermined the entire OP Honor program while abusing his authority over an extended period of time having inappropriate personal relationships with a subordinate. How else did they think it would be taken when they are publically hanging out with him? Even if the investigation doesn't find anything criminal, there is more than enough for pretty much anyone in uniform to be drummed out under an AR.

If he's your winger just have him over for a bbq or something. They are public figures, subject to public scrutiny. This send a message of public support for Vance, and just further reinforces the perception (reality?) that the GOFOs are a weird inner circle that are detached from reality. I don't get it. These are really smart people, and have been managing their public image for years.