Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[CBH99]

Is there some unique skill this guy has that is keeping him from a trip to the release center ?

Nope. Just a leaf on his shoulders and a rank that allows him to tell 99% of people to f**k off…

I do have a genuine question, as I have never heard the phrase “Restorative Engagement with the Community” before.

But what the f**k does that even mean? And is everyone in Ottawa so tone deaf that they don’t understand it isn’t possible in a case like this?

If this is being done as per the VCDS, could the VCDS not also ‘have a talk with her colleague’ about retiring in the very near future, or being given the boot for a variety of reasons?

Plenty of jobs in the military could benefit from a former SOF guy at the helm, even if he is a tone deaf dirtbag and piss poor leader. This isn’t one of them


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Reviewing sexual misconduct complaints after he wrote a reference letter for someone who broke into the home of one of his subordinates & raped her?

If he had any professional decency or leadership skills, he would have turned down that position knowing it was inappropriate.


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More questions - who on Earth put him in that position in the first place?

Between the CDS, acting VCDS, and MND - not one of them stopped and said “Given the reason for his removal of his former position, we shouldn’t have this guy anywhere near anything that has to do with the sexual assault complaints.”

Not one of them thought this was a horrible idea?

I understand the new VCDS has only been in her role for 3 months now, but she’s a good officer with a good reputation, and was selected for that position precisely because we need change at the top. Same with Gen. Eyre.

Why is she just removing him from the position now that this has been made public?

As tone deaf as some in Ottawa might be, I very much doubt she is… there has to be something else happening behind the scenes…???

 

[Good2Golf]

As tone deaf as some in Ottawa might be, I very much doubt she is… there has to be something else happening behind the scenes…???

Yup. A Department running amuck…and only a limited number of people at play who can direct things to happen. The truth will out one day on what depth of toxicity exists at the highest levels of the Department. many would be surprised and shocked, but those who’d have followed the patterns of disfunction and deduced what the source is, won’t be surprised in the least.

 

[brihard]

Let’s not lose sight of what Dawe actually did: he provided an employer character reference, knowing only what he knew at the time. I think common consensus is he could have said quite a bit less about the now former member than he did, but that this is also something that’s within the norm for chain of command engagement when a member faces a judicial process.

Dawe is NOT accused of misconduct, or criminality, of any service offence, of harassment, of HISB, or any such thing. Against this we have an officer who, by any account I’ve seen, is widely held to be pretty damned good at what he does. He’s a man who brings a considerable amount of knowledge to the table when it comes to developing, maintaining, and employing CAF’s ability to kill people and break their shit.

He showed a lapse in judgement on this one file, but it’s a situation symptomatic of the profession and the professional culture he was brought up in. There’s room for sorting him out in this (though I suspect that’s long since accomplished), but let’s maybe be careful about what we want to see our military discard here.

Just my two cents.

 

[coolintheshade]

Where is the facepalm emoji?? Like really people this is what you got??

WTF is going on in NDHQ?

Pearkes or Carling Campus? Jk ...I jest.

The appointment was a bad idea from the conception, surely there must have been one 'sane' mind in the room to put their hand up and say...'but', y'all remember the 'recommendation letter by the Dawe' for the accuse in a sexual abuse case?

While I'm sure there are lots of 'clean' competent male Offrs to be part of the harassment review board, how about they just appoint if need me a higher rank, a senior female Colonel/BGen instead of these continuous old boys club from the combat arms?????

 

[Infanteer]

even if he is a tone deaf dirtbag and piss poor leader. This isn’t one of them

Bold statement - have you ever served with or under him?

Read the VCDS message. The investigation found he did something for which he regretted and he has shown a willingness now to reach out to "stakeholders and the affected persons."

The point is good people make bad decisions - I'm not sure if a bad decision automatically makes him a dirtbag and can be used to characterize a 30-year career....

Reviewing sexual misconduct complaints after he wrote a reference letter for someone who broke into the home of one of his subordinates & raped her?

That's not entirely accurate. She was not his subordinate, her husband was. Not that it changes anything, but the fact that you aren't getting basic facts right when making character assumptions leads me to question your statements.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Let’s not lose sight of what Dawe actually did: he provided an employer character reference, knowing only what he knew at the time. I think common consensus is he could have said quite a bit less about the now former member than he did, but that this is also something that’s within the norm for chain of command engagement when a member faces a judicial process.

Dawe is NOT accused of misconduct, or criminality, of any service offence, of harassment, of HISB, or any such thing. Against this we have an officer who, by any account I’ve seen, is widely held to be pretty damned good at what he does. He’s a man who brings a considerable amount of knowledge to the table when it comes to developing, maintaining, and employing CAF’s ability to kill people and break their shit.

He showed a lapse in judgement on this one file, but it’s a situation symptomatic of the profession and the professional culture he was brought up in. There’s room for sorting him out in this (though I suspect that’s long since accomplished), but let’s maybe be careful about what we want to see our military discard here.

Just my two cents.

Was it just one file, though? And shouldn't a Senior General with alot of experience (and all his staff) know better?

That's the concern being expressed: is there an 'old boys' network' operating in the military, at the highest levels, that will excuse any ethical breach in favour of protecting each other's careers?

If I was the type to go with 'yes', then I'd be on the lookout for actions to confirm my impressions. Which seem to be plentiful.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Was it just one file, though? And shouldn't a Senior General with alot of experience (and all his staff) know better?

That's the concern being expressed: is there an 'old boys' network' operating in the military, at the highest levels, that will excuse any ethical breach in favour of protecting each other's careers?

If I was the type to go with 'yes', then I'd be on the lookout for actions to confirm my impressions. Which seem to be plentiful.

Except this did NOT protect Mr. Dawe's career, if anything all this renewed publicity stuck another nail in the coffin. If I was looking to further sabotage someone who's pedigree actually included leading men and women, and not wielding a pen, well......

 

[coolintheshade]

Bold statement - have you ever served with or under him?

Read the VCDS message. The investigation found he did something for which he regretted and he has shown a willingness now to reach out to "stakeholders and the affected persons."

The point is good people make bad decisions - I'm not sure if a bad decision automatically makes him a dirtbag and can be used to characterize a 30-year career....


That's not entirely inaccurate. She was not his subordinate, her husband was. Not that it changes anything, but the fact that you aren't getting basic facts right when making character assumptions leads me to question your statements.

Hmmmm...how about you focus on the grand picture here, the fact that this did not meet the globe and mail test from the get go. What difference does it make who the subordinate is?

I'll never associate with a person who let themselves into another person's home, and sexual assault a person. Perhaps you condone this behaviour because it didn't affect you?

It's like most things racism, sexism, etc......when you don't walk in a person's shoes, the mentality of not in my backyard, I don't care is normally in play. Good riddance of these sexual deviants and their cohorts from the CAF!

We need a civilian oversight board...something police forces around the country also need, to fix the usual cover-ups

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Hmmmm...how about you focus on the grand picture here, the fact that this did not meet the globe and mail test from the get go. What difference does it make who the subordinate is?

I'll never associate with a person who let themselves into another person's home, and sexual assault a person. Perhaps you condone this behaviour because it didn't affect you?

It's like most things racism, sexism, etc......when you don't walk in a person's shoes, the mentality of not in my backyard, I don't care is normally in play. Good riddance of these sexual deviants and their cohorts from the CAF!

We need a civilian oversight board...something police forces around the country also need, to fix the usual cover-ups

So…we have a civilian oversight board. It is called “the Minister” and “Parliament”. Whether they choose, collectively, to actually do their jobs and not buck pass is not for me to decide.

You have made accusations of MGen Dawe that are inaccurate and border on libellous. Are you even familiar with what transpired?

Reasonable people can disagree about the letter of reference that he wrote and to what extent he knew any or all the details, but I do not think that he can reasonably called a “sexual deviant”.

 

[Good2Golf]

While I'm sure there are lots of 'clean' competent male Offrs to be part of the harassment review board, how about they just appoint if need me a higher rank, a senior female Colonel/BGen instead of these continuous old boys club from the combat arms?????

How about a woman LGen?

…oh, wait…

 

[coolintheshade]

So…we have a civilian oversight board. It is called “the Minister” and “Parliament”. Whether they choose, collectively, to actually do their jobs and not buck pass is not for me to decide.

You have made accusations of MGen Dawe that are inaccurate and border on libellous. Are you even familiar with what transpired?

Reasonable people can disagree about the letter of reference that he wrote and to what extent he knew any or all the details, but I do not think that he can reasonably called a “sexual deviant”.

Are you able to comprehend written words? I was referring to the other member that rx'd the recommendation letter as the 'sexual deviant', not Dawe...go read again, then come back and apologize for your knee jerk reaction. Not holding my breathe though

Again, I will never associate myself with any of the following oiks regardless of work/personal life: racists, sexual perverts/deviants/sexists/xenophobes/et al

 

[coolintheshade]

How about a woman LGen?

…oh, wait…

Yes, we have a those.....but how many currently. If you read what I said again, I was alluding to the point of...if the powers that be are really struggling to find avail GOFOs females, many avail at the rank of Col to BGen. Context pal

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Are you able to comprehend written words? I was referring to the other member that rx'd the recommendation letter as the 'sexual deviant', not Dawe...go read again, then come back and apologize for your knee jerk reaction. Not holding my breathe though

Again, I will never associate myself with any of the following oiks regardless of work/personal life: racists, sexual perverts/deviants/sexists/xenophobes/et al

I apologize, so you can breathe again.

The way I read what you had wrote, you were refering to Dawe, not the Major he wrote the letter of reference for. If you go back and read your response to Infanteer, you will see that it is ambiguous, at best.

Have a great day!

 

[Halifax Tar]

I honestly thought Dawe was out or on his way...

Why keep a very senior leader who's proven to be ethically suspect, in such a manner as the incident in question provides ?

What message does this send to our juniors ?
What message does this send to the victim (s) ?

I am willing for forgive minor transgressions on the assumption that a lesson has be learned but this has directly and negatively affected our chain of command. And I am not sure there is any lesson to be learned except release from the CAF.

I get it some have connections to Dawe and think he deserves a chance. Ask yourself if we give him a second chance what are we now setting a precedent for ? What could follow ? And what will the greater impact be on the institution ?

 

[daftandbarmy]

How about a woman LGen?

…oh, wait…

 

[Navy_Pete]

Let’s not lose sight of what Dawe actually did: he provided an employer character reference, knowing only what he knew at the time. I think common consensus is he could have said quite a bit less about the now former member than he did, but that this is also something that’s within the norm for chain of command engagement when a member faces a judicial process.

Dawe is NOT accused of misconduct, or criminality, of any service offence, of harassment, of HISB, or any such thing. Against this we have an officer who, by any account I’ve seen, is widely held to be pretty damned good at what he does. He’s a man who brings a considerable amount of knowledge to the table when it comes to developing, maintaining, and employing CAF’s ability to kill people and break their shit.

He showed a lapse in judgement on this one file, but it’s a situation symptomatic of the profession and the professional culture he was brought up in. There’s room for sorting him out in this (though I suspect that’s long since accomplished), but let’s maybe be careful about what we want to see our military discard here.

Just my two cents.

Not disagreeing with any of that, but kind of reinforces what his actual area of expertise is, and not really any overlap with what the task was. It's basically a policy wonk type job and they tried to stick a door kicker on it, despite very recent and very public demonstrations that he has some personal learning to do. Seems a bit like the approach with the old SHARP courses, where the instructors seemed to have a lot of re-courses for the SHARP course due to complaints, so eventually became experts at it.

He's got a specialized skill set and knowledge that has no real use here, so this whole thing is just bizarre, especially as there is someone else already appointed to do this specific kind of work.

 

[Takeniteasy]

I don't (or didn't) know anything about "restorative engagement"(what MGen Dawe has been assigned to do). I assumed that it was one of those buzz phrases that is supposed to describe some process which, unless one goes through it, doesn't really mean anything to most people. So I googled it. Seems that there is a somewhat formal structure for restorative engagement in DND/CAF.

Defence representatives listening and reflecting through restorative engagement - Canada.ca

As a Defence representative, you can help those who experienced sexual misconduct by listening to and acknowledging their experience.

www.canada.ca

I'm not being dismissive of the practice, honestly. But I still can't imagine how such would work in a military culture. I know the intent is to change some aspects of military culture, but that may be easier said than done.

This is part of the Class Action lawsuit the FG settled on. Aside from a compensatory award you can sign up for the Restorative Justice road where you can reveal your experience to one of these groups selected. I for one would not participate in this professional development exercise as it is 2021 and all who work for CAF should understand legislation and proper professional environment behaviors by now (Deschamp report was a start). CAF got away easy with settling the class action and we are now seeing why.

I am not one to judge on single acts but have experienced the challenges of trying to address negative attitudes within the CoC and would not wish that on anyone. I have no sympathies for these tops leaders as many subordinates have lost their careers through humiliation and lack of leadership, at least they have a hefty pension to fall on unlike many subordinates who did/do not.

 

[brihard]

Not disagreeing with any of that, but kind of reinforces what his actual area of expertise is, and not really any overlap with what the task was. It's basically a policy wonk type job and they tried to stick a door kicker on it, despite very recent and very public demonstrations that he has some personal learning to do. Seems a bit like the approach with the old SHARP courses, where the instructors seemed to have a lot of re-courses for the SHARP course due to complaints, so eventually became experts at it.

He's got a specialized skill set and knowledge that has no real use here, so this whole thing is just bizarre, especially as there is someone else already appointed to do this specific kind of work.

For sure. I’m not saying he’s right for that job, just let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Interestingly- I’m watching the Trudeau presser about vaccine mandate. The questions afterwards pivoted quickly to the Dawe issue, and the PM did not have kind words to say about CAF. Interestingly there was a question about replacing Sajjan. The answer was a very generic bit about how carefully they think of each cabinet appointment, but he did NOT clearly come out and defend or support him.

 

[Good2Golf]

Yes, we have a those.....but how many currently. If you read what I said again, I was alluding to the point of...if the powers that be are really struggling to find avail GOFOs females, many avail at the rank of Col to BGen. Context pal

We have two right at the highest levels and directly involved in things sexual-misconduct, LGen Allen - VCDS and Lgen Carignan - Chief, Professional Conduct and Culture. One of them was intimately involved with the tasking & re-tasking of MGen Dawe.

I read exactly what you said, and re-read it in its entirety a second time and noted that it seemed to set the scene for ignoring the involvement of even more senior women generals in the organization right now. Let me ask you why you feel we should ignore 3-leaf generals like Allen and Carignan and focus on women Colonels and BGens? That would imply that you are not satisfied with how, or how not these very senior women generals are contributing to the situation.

So what is it? Ignore current involvement of a couple of woman 3-leaf generals for your desire to see women Col/BGen deal with the issues in the future?

 

[brihard]

We have two right at the highest levels and directly involved in things sexual-misconduct, LGen Allen - VCDS and Lgen Carignan - Chief, Professional Conduct and Culture. One of them was intimated involved with the tasking & re-tasking of MGen Dawe.

I read exactly what you said, and re-read it in its entirety a second time and noted that it seemed to set the scene for ignoring the involvement of even more senior women generals in the organization right now. Let me ask you why you feel we should ignore 3-leaf generals like Allen and Carignan and focus on women Colonels and BGens? That would imply that you are not satisfied with how, or how not these very senior women generals are contributing to the situation.

So what is it? Ignore current involvement of a couple of woman 3-leaf generals for your desire to see women Col/BGen deal with the issues in the future?

For that matter, are said female Col/BGen particularly inclined to get dragged away from their substantive roles to deal with this stuff? Is there some element of tokenism there?