Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[captloadie]

Let's start going down the conspiracy theory route. Maybe the old boys club had become threatened that a female non operator was going to become CDS, so decisions were made behind the scenes to make her look bad and ruin her chances.

 

[Weinie]

Let's start going down the conspiracy theory route. Maybe the old boys club had become threatened that a female non operator was going to become CDS, so decisions were made behind the scenes to make her look bad and ruin her chances.

Sigh

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Let's start going down the conspiracy theory route. Maybe the old boys club had become threatened that a female non operator was going to become CDS, so decisions were made behind the scenes to make her look bad and ruin her chances.

Oh FFS. Seriously?

 

[Good2Golf]

Let's start going down the conspiracy theory route. Maybe the old boys club had become threatened that a female non operator was going to become CDS, so decisions were made behind the scenes to make her look bad and ruin her chances.

By old boys club, do you mean Trudeau & Sajjan?

If not, what old boys club do you think still exists now that politicians and senior bureaucrats haven’t de-powered, and that their own agendas are the ones being pursued and the uniformed front-window leaders are simply being given orders to follow that are designed to further erode public trust in the CAF, thus justifying defunding of the CAF and redirection to pay for the insane levels of debt the current government is amassing as a rate that would make a drunken sailor on shore leave look like a frugal hermit?

Conspiratorial enough for you?

 

[Halifax Tar]

My point is: are you privy to the discussions that led to this decision being made? Me neither. There could be a perfectly valid reason why Dawe was selected for this position.

Once again, Dawe has not committed, nor even been accused of committing a crime.

I’ve known him since the early 90s. Rushing to judgement is never good

Both. He recognizes that human beings make mistakes.

I don't doubt that Dawe is an accomplished and capable soldier. And I can appreciate people have personal connections to him, but his actions on this file have stained his ability to navigate ethical dilemmas in my eyes, and would seem I'm onside with the unwashed masses doing the everyday business in the CAF.

I have had Jr's come to me since this broke asking WTF. We don't need this, I don't need more S1s asking me "Chief, WTF ?" They're pissed and rightfully so IMHO, I'm pissed too.

One does not have to be guilty of a crime to be ethically suspect.

It takes decades to build an accomplished career and just a moment to destroy it.

Give Dawe a 942 tag with BER; and a pension and let him fade into the distance. We should have been done with this drama months ago.

 

[Good2Golf]

Give Dawe a 942 tag with BER; and a pension and let him fade into the distance. We should have been done with this drama months ago.

Should have also stuck a red 942 on the PM and MND too, but here we are…

 

[captloadie]

Let's start going down the conspiracy theory route. Maybe the old boys club had become threatened that a female non operator was going to become CDS, so decisions were made behind the scenes to make her look bad and ruin her chances.

Well, this is speculation is no less relevant, or absurd, as trying to guess why MGen Dawe was selected for the position in the first place.

I have had a few interactions with him, and agree with Weinie's statement of his character. I think he was one of the few individuals at his rank who understands what it takes to move the institution in a positive direction, and that the CAF is more than just the Govt's means of applying lethal force. But, at his level in a Federal institution, it means that certain mistakes, those that have a societal and political nexus, aren't going to be accepted. The excuse that we all make mistakes doesn't work at that level.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Should have also stuck a red 942 on the PM and MND too, but here we are…

Fine, but whataboutism doesn't absolve our own transgressions.

The public spoke and elected them, case closed. Get on with it.

 

[Weinie]

Fine, but whataboutism doesn't absolve our own transgressions.

The public spoke and elected them, case closed. Get on with it.

Then shut the whole institution down. We have a singular purpose. We also have 100000 employees. To expect Jesus from all of them is absurd.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Then shut the whole institution down. We have a singular purpose. We also have 100000 employees. To expect Jesus from all of them is absurd.

Scorched earth if you don't get what you want eh ?

 

[Takeniteasy]

Both. He recognizes that human beings make mistakes.

Your comment underpins why the CAF is in this situation. Where is the discussion thread for the victims and their loyalty, sense of duty, abilities etc...

 

[Good2Golf]

Fine, but whataboutism doesn't absolve our own transgressions.

The public spoke and elected them, case closed. Get on with it.

So what’s your plan to identify and purge the “old boys” network? Who is in it? How are they supposed to be operating above the law and with disregard to the public’s will…as implemented through Government?

 

[Halifax Tar]

So what’s your plan to identify and purge the “old boys” network? Who is in it? How are they supposed to be operating above the law and with disregard to the public’s will…as implemented through Government?

There's no purge don't be so alarmist.

Getting rid of sexual predators and their supporters, while providing support to their victims is a good thing.

If you don't agree with the statement above I can't help you.

 

[captloadie]

Why, after the last year, would anyone believe that there isn't some kind of old boys club? Some group of senior officers who through group think and a sense of loyalty to their peers are willing to believe many of the "mistakes" are just one time lapses in judgement.

 

[Good2Golf]

I fully agree with that goal statement.

Per your earlier statement about cashiering Dawe, where is the line to be drawn in the ID and removal of those who don’t support the goal statement? By your post, it is not only the predators and harassers but now the one-timer indirects like Dawe. What’s the tear-line? Is it rank based? What burden of proof is placed on the CAF to release (vice charge, which should be accepted generally as clear-cut)? Feel good statements of intended end-state are a start, but I’d like to see people move beyond platitudes and state clear, quantifiable actions and discriminators as to what is worthy of dismissal, where it is otherwise not clear in CAF Regulations, Orders and Directives.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I fully agree with that goal statement.

Per your earlier statement about cashiering Dawe, where is the line to be drawn in the ID and removal of those who don’t support the goal statement? By your post, it is not only the predators and harassers but now the one-timer indirects like Dawe. What’s the tear-line? Is it rank based? What burden of proof is placed on the CAF to release (vice charge, which should be accepted generally as clear-cut)? Feel good statements of intended end-state are a start, but I’d like to see people move beyond platitudes and state clear, quantifiable actions and discriminators as to what is worthy of dismissal, where it is otherwise not clear in CAF Regulations, Orders and Directives.

I'd say a character reference for a rapist is a good start.

We can fiddle fart around and keep him in on admin technicalities all we want. But we can't then be surprised when the PM says we don't get it, and we continue to bleed people.

The CAF is at a moral crossroads here I think.

How much of the future should we be sacrificing for this guy ?

 

[KevinB]

I'd say a character reference for a rapist is a good start.

We can fiddle fart around and keep him in on admin technicalities all we want. But we can't then be surprised when the PM says we don't get it, and we continue to bleed people.

The CAF is at a moral crossroads here I think.

How much of the future should we be sacrificing for this guy ?

Seriously?
Look I know all the parties to that incident - and my COA would have been to toss Hamilton out of a Helo 'accidentally'. But no one usually agrees with my recommended COA's.
BUT MG Dawe wrote a letter - was it poorly thought out - yeah absolutely - did he realize that after the fact - absolutely. He made a mistake that was it...

 

[Good2Golf]

I'd say a character reference for a rapist is a good start.

We can fiddle fart around and keep him in on admin technicalities all we want. But we can't then be surprised when the PM says we don't get it, and we continue to bleed people.

The CAF is at a moral crossroads here I think.

How much of the future should we be sacrificing for this guy ?

Roger. So, we update the QR&Os to forbid the CoC from providing character refs for convicted sexual offenders, which I think we both agree should not need to explicitly captured, but perhaps so.

Crossroads indeed. Sexual misconduct in whatever form, be it sexual harassment/misconduct/assault by senior officers, pedophelia by senior NCMs, etc. must be be dealt with quickly, completely and transparently. Other related actions, as the reference issue for Dawe, should also be identified and addressed within the CAF’s purview.

Now…what about LGen Allen? She has explicitly stated her reasoning for the original assignment of Dawe and subsequent appreciation of missing the mark. Do we fire her too? No? What correction should LGen Allen undertake to resolve her deficiency in judgement? How much was her lapse in judgement less than Dawe’s…say Dawe is a 10, what was Allen? 6? 7? 4? Enough so she doesn’t get a 5D or 5F release? Does her gender give her a mulligan, where Dawe’s does not? How does the CAF move forward with fairness for the victims, yet correction for those who are still able to contribute to the rebuilding of the institution’s reputation?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Seriously?
Look I know all the parties to that incident - and my COA would have been to toss Hamilton out of a Helo 'accidentally'. But no one usually agrees with my recommended COA's.
BUT MG Dawe wrote a letter - was it poorly thought out - yeah absolutely - did he realize that after the fact - absolutely. He made a mistake that was it...

MGs can't make mistakes like that. For that matter Snr ranked people cannot make mistakes like that. For that matter no one can make mistakes like that. Read what Hamilton did, to a married couple also under Dawe's command. To write that character reference is a betrayal to the innocent and the victim (s).

I get it. He was/is popular and you guys knew him. It sucks, and maybe it was a temporary error in judgement. Unfortunately as a GO/FO youre a face in the organization and the example to emulate. What message are we sending, and what message do we want to send ?

I say again what are we saying to the public and CAF members by keeping him around ?

Roger. So, we update the QR&Os to forbid the CoC from providing character refs for convicted sexual offenders, which I think we both agree should not need to explicitly captured, but perhaps so.

Crossroads indeed. Sexual misconduct in whatever form, be it sexual harassment/misconduct/assault by senior officers, pedophelia by senior NCMs, etc. must be be dealt with quickly, completely and transparently. Other related actions, as the reference issue for Dawe, should also be identified and addressed within the CAF’s purview.

Now…what about LGen Allen? She has explicitly stated her reasoning for the original assignment of Dawe and subsequent appreciation of missing the mark. Do we fire her too? No? What correction should LGen Allen undertake to resolve her deficiency in judgement? How much was her lapse in judgement less than Dawe’s…say Dawe is a 10, what was Allen? 6? 7? 4? Enough so she doesn’t get a 5D or 5F release? Does her gender give her a mulligan, where Dawe’s does not? How does the CAF move forward with fairness for the victims, yet correction for those who are still able to contribute to the rebuilding of the institution’s reputation?

Look you can chicken shit and red herring this all the way down to his cub Scout leader in 1979 if makes you feel better. But the fact remains Dawe wrote what he did in support of that POS Hamilton (Not the city). I'm not going to play pass the buck with you.

Keeping him in uniform is saying something to our political masters, the public, victims and CAF members at large.

And trust me those I talk to are getting the message loud and clear. I get ears fulls of it from both commissioned and non.

Like I said, keep on keeping on, we will reap what we sow.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Remind me: what did Dawe know about Hamilton at the time the letter was written?