Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[FJAG]

My observation from 14 years in the army reserve in an urban regiment was that we had generally three categories of troops:

1. The dabblers, who would give it a whirl, finish basic, do maybe a year to a year and a half in the company, then get out.

2. The “School and a bit” crowd who would join either late in high school or early in college/university, and get out within a couple years of graduating once life got busy. Call it 5-7 years.

3. The “Long haulers” who would stick it out into their professional adult lives for as long as they’re able.

Anecdotally, most of us who deployed were younger- Cpl/MCpl. Most of us were either taking a break from or done school, or were not yet settled into a career or a marriage. There were of course plenty of exceptions, but generally very few would deploy in their first decade of a professional career. There were also quite a few who were living the Class B life.

May - August is the big window for students, of course- shorter stuff is easily fit in there, and the FTSE targets this window. For a full deployment though, we’re talking a year and a half to two years. In my case I took two years off after my second year of university. That was a year of workup then six months in theatre. Arguably, our pre deployment time was quite inefficient. We could have done the real work in maybe 6 or 7 months inclusive of our month in Ft Bliss and our month in Wainwright- both of which were also inefficient for my platoon. We sat on our thumbs a lot.

There will always be a lot of young reservists who don’t really have much direction in life yet who will happily grab a tour of any length. For anything lengthy, good NCOs in particular will be harder.

I think that you are bang on with your assessment. I've always felt that we should hit the "school and a bit" crowd with as much training and opportunity as we can while we can to get them to get them as fully qualified as possible while they are accessible. They can afford to take a gap year if necessary to make some money and see the world. We should be subsidizing their education as much as possible to keep them bought in.

It's at that 5-7 year point that they settle down and have a family and a job and competing interests. To keep them on as "long haulers" (and we need quite a few of those if we ever want to have a force that can mobilize if needed) we need to make ongoing commitments both as easy and as meaningful as possible. I've always believed in making unit Class A training as just one weekend a month and a couple of weeks in the summer but making those really good events (to make them desirable if not obligatory).

That leads to one conclusion that the regular force doesn't want to face. You can't expect the bulk of the "long haulers" to be the trainers of the "school and a bit" crowd. Much of your summer training has to be conducted by the regular force. And therein lies the problem.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Cynical but likely true unfortunately

I apoloigize I should use more appropriate language. It's really sad caring so much about the CAF and the people in the CAF and realizing this is the standard. I've literally been punished more severely for walking across grass (that I was doing PT on hours earlier).

 

[Good2Golf]

Part of the issue is we have long since stopped being an organization dedicated to being a lean, efficient fighting force. Instead we have become a bureaucratic bloat like the rest of government, not capable of even deploying a brigade or anything more then a company + for any significant length of time.

As much as this is destroying our Morale, and the institution, we need to utilize this to learn, reorganize, and become a efficient force. This will mean hard choices, and likely more civilian oversight in the coming years.

MilEME09, this is actually relatively profound yet deceptively simple. Stay true to core values (Integrity, Loyalty. Courage, Stewardship (leadership & accountability), Excellence) and don’t let the ‘flavour of the day’ (talking the same hip bureaucrat ‘speak’ as the civil servants across the table from you) compromise your conduct or comportment - be proud, be competent, be accountable…lead…at all levels.

 

[Haggis]

Well, IMHO we ve got a pretty good PM. Mind you I was rather disappointed when I donned an orange shirt last week and did my best to learn more about truth and reconciliation and he didn’t. He screwed up that one big time. But I can forgive.

So, you're okay that he created a national commemorative day with much fanfare and apology, promised to do right by first nations peoples, even shed a tear or three, then skipped it altogether to hit the beach and also had his office lie to Canadians about his activities on that day?

Will you forgive his next big lie? And the next one? And the one after that?

 

[YZT580]

As an outside and retired observer for many years I would suggest the one thing you don't want is more civilian oversight. The process of hiring in the civil service, which is where the oversight will originate, does not look for the best person for the task at hand. Senior positions are filled by friends or by people who know how to punctuate their statements correctly (dot their I's). Finding the right people to reduce the bloat and re-create a proud and efficient fighting unit won't be achieved via a competition board. In my work area, when we wanted to get something done we often would choose a rookie (i.e. one with less than 5 years service) a senior jaded type who had seen it all but whose record showed that he had contributed a number of ideas in the past and head it up with a recently appointed operational supervisor who was still current in all aspects of the work and had demonstrated their competency in the past. That is all, just 3 but for whatever reason it worked. The big thing was giving them the authority to actually implement their ideas after completing a safety analysis of course but without trying to change things in their plan.

 

[daftandbarmy]

So, you're okay that he created a national commemorative day with much fanfare and apology, promised to do right by first nations peoples, even shed a tear or three, then skipped it altogether to hit the beach and also had his office lie to Canadians about his activities on that day?

Will you forgive his next big lie? And the next one? And the one after that?

But Trudeau just wants us to believe him:

"Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”

Voltaire

 

[trigger324]

So, you're okay that he created a national commemorative day with much fanfare and apology, promised to do right by first nations peoples, even shed a tear or three, then skipped it altogether to hit the beach and also had his office lie to Canadians about his activities on that day?

Will you forgive his next big lie? And the next one? And the one after that?

I’m okay with it? Didn’t I say I was disappointed?

I tend to forgive many people for many things. It’s my nature.

Will I forgive his next lie? All depends. Hasn’t told that lie yet so I guess I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

[Haggis]

I’m okay with it? Didn’t I say I was disappointed?

Forgiving it means you're okay with it.

I tend to forgive many people for many things. It’s my nature.

Did they lie to an entire country? I tend to hold my leadership, both uniformed and civilian, to a higher standard of integrity and morality.

Will I forgive his next lie? All depends. Hasn’t told that lie yet so I guess I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Are you sure he hasn't told another lie yet? Or has he just not been caught yet?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I’m okay with it? Didn’t I say I was disappointed?

I tend to forgive many people for many things. It’s my nature.

Will I forgive his next lie? All depends. Hasn’t told that lie yet so I guess I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Pretty heavy condemnation, you're clearly very troubled by his behavior.

 

[trigger324]

Pretty heavy condemnation, you're clearly very troubled by his behavior.

Surely you jest

 

[ballz]

I take it that your lens is a regular force lens.

Yes, I thought that was clear given the context.

The problem from the regular force's point of view is that they want reservists for full tours which usually totals almost a year long commitment by the time predeployment training etc etc is taken into consideration. Much of the reserve force that is available on that basis is already filling thousands of Class B jobs in Ottawa and around the country.

Well, we certainly aren't going to have a useful conversation with you telling me what my point of view is. It's actually exact opposite of what you just said. We generally don't want to give up deployment positions (we get told to by Army), but we continually try to get PRes out on exercises and it leads to a mountain of effort for like 1 or 2 extra people in the end, if any at all.... unless it's something that would be considered a "good go" (i.e. international travel) and then they're coming out in droves....

 

[Kilted]

There will always be a lot of young reservists who don’t really have much direction in life yet who will happily grab a tour of any length. For anything lengthy, good NCOs in particular will be harder.

There will likely be more MCpl's and Sgt's available considering how fast they are pushing people through the training and that there is now one course for MCpl/Sgt. Granted you will not get the same calibre coming out that you did a few years ago, for if nothing else, lack of experience. My unit recently had a Sgt qualified Pte, I believe that he has since been promoted to Cpl.

 

[Kilted]

Strong suspicion a S1/Cpl wouldn't have been granted that Voluntary Release with a 5F pending, especially now. The nepotism is real.

I knew a Cpl who was allowed to VR instead of being 5F'd. It wasn't related to a sexual misconduct issue. I was also staff on a course where a PteR was allowed to VR instead of being charged for assaulting an instructor.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I don't even know why we are talking about Justin Trudeau or Harjit Sajjan?

Did Trudeau give Peter Dawe a new position?
Did Trudeau give Croucher a "job for the boys" in Halifax?
Did Trudeau treat Kevin and Annalise Schamuhn badly?
Did Trudeau allow Flight attendants and Military Members to be assaulted by Dignitaries at their own work place and do nothing about it?
Was Trudeau responsible for this little gem I'm surprised nobody has talked about:

Page Not Found / Page non trouvée

www.mpcc-cppm.gc.ca

This isn't a political issue. It's an issue with the way the Canadian Armed Forces Officer Corps runs the bloody department. The buck stops at the Officer Corps. Officers are the ones with the legal authority to give orders, we are the ones with bloody commissioning scroll for gods sake.

People make mistakes, everyone has made one before, goodness knows I've made a few but what I see over and over is a failure to firstly, correct those mistakes and then not hold people accountable for not correcting them.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I don't even know why we are talking about Justin Trudeau or Harjit Sajjan?

Did Trudeau give Peter Dawe a new position?
Did Trudeau give Croucher a "job for the boys" in Halifax?
Did Trudeau treat Kevin and Annalise Schamuhn badly?
Did Trudeau allow Flight attendants and Military Members to be assaulted by Dignitaries at their own work place and do nothing about it?
Was Trudeau responsible for this little gem I'm surprised nobody has talked about:

Page Not Found / Page non trouvée

www.mpcc-cppm.gc.ca

This isn't a political issue. It's an issue with the way the Canadian Armed Forces Officer Corps runs the bloody department. The buck stops at the Officer Corps. Officers are the ones with the legal authority to give orders, we are the ones with bloody commissioning scroll for gods sake.

People make mistakes, everyone has made one before, goodness knows I've made a few but what I see over and over is a failure to firstly, correct those mistakes and then not hold people accountable for not correcting them.

I generally agree with you except for one, pedantic, correction. Canadian Armed Forces Officers do not run the Department. That is the purview of MND and DM. The CDS commands the CAF, which is a part of DND. Make of that what you will.

 

[dapaterson]

The CAF is not part of DND. They are legally distinct entities, with different CoC and different regulatory and policy frameworks.

Management of DND is the responsibility of the DM. Command of the CAF is the responsibility of the CDS.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The CAF is not part of DND. They are legally distinct entities, with different CoC and different regulatory and policy frameworks.

Management of DND is the responsibility of the DM. Command of the CAF is the responsibility of the CDS.

Thank-you for the correction, which highlights my point: People even in the CAF/DND do not understand the legal distinction, which leads to both sides frequently going outside their swim lanes. Or pundits suggesting solutions that are legally impossible (ie appointing a civilian as CDS to “sort out the CAF”).

 

[daftandbarmy]

I don't even know why we are talking about Justin Trudeau or Harjit Sajjan?

Did Trudeau give Peter Dawe a new position?
Did Trudeau give Croucher a "job for the boys" in Halifax?
Did Trudeau treat Kevin and Annalise Schamuhn badly?
Did Trudeau allow Flight attendants and Military Members to be assaulted by Dignitaries at their own work place and do nothing about it?
Was Trudeau responsible for this little gem I'm surprised nobody has talked about:

Page Not Found / Page non trouvée

www.mpcc-cppm.gc.ca

This isn't a political issue. It's an issue with the way the Canadian Armed Forces Officer Corps runs the bloody department. The buck stops at the Officer Corps. Officers are the ones with the legal authority to give orders, we are the ones with bloody commissioning scroll for gods sake.

People make mistakes, everyone has made one before, goodness knows I've made a few but what I see over and over is a failure to firstly, correct those mistakes and then not hold people accountable for not correcting them.

Exactly. Well said.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the prevailing culture:

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Management of DND is the responsibility of the DM. Command of the CAF is the responsibility of the CDS.

Hmm. Not seen.

 

[Navy_Pete]

The CAF is not part of DND. They are legally distinct entities, with different CoC and different regulatory and policy frameworks.

Management of DND is the responsibility of the DM. Command of the CAF is the responsibility of the CDS.

And both report to the MND, so there is a common point of accountability there.

All kinds of weird reporting chains though; the ADMs aren't part of the CAF, but still have a mix of military/civilian employees. Some things are reported to the DM, some to VCDS (then the DM/CDS) and then some odd dotted line reporting to the CAF side. Gets confusing sometimes because the operational side issues orders which actually don't apply to you, but you follow anyway (sometimes). The PaCE training CANFORGEN was a good example, as a lot of it applied to DND civilians that don't fall anywhere under the CDS command line.

Here's an older org chart, but still valid;
DND/CAF Organizational Chart - Canada.ca