Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[SupersonicMax]

Our current crop of Colonels and Lieutenant-Colonels, and their supporting CWOs, have been infected by the same / raised in the same culture of zero accountability, being too afraid and too incomptent in HR to use the remedial measures system. It was a Maj (now currently serving LCol) and an MWO that were too spineless to support me in putting a WO on remedial measures when I was a Pl Comd, then when they were finally on board it was a LCol and RSM who lacked any spine and decided to just post the problem, that caused me to pursue my CPA as a mechanism to release. Had nothing to do with GOFOs.

Get rid of all the GOFOs all you want, I don't think much changes.

That’s a very broad brush from a fairly limited number of data points. I can confirm there are many LCols and above that will not hesitate to use the disciplinary and administrative systems.

It is either you experienced a weak CoC or the reasons your wanted to pursue administrative actions were simply not justified in the end (while it is possible, two levels questioning proposed administrative measures is perhaps a sign that what you were proposing was not appropriate). Every story has a couple of versions. We only get to know yours.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Amusingly, it turns out that all of the army.ca rants on GOFO bloat were, in fact, an inadvertent OPSEC breach of CAF's 'defense in depth'.

I don’t want to minimize what victims are bringing forward but if I was an adversary, I would use this crisis to the max extent possible to weaken our strategic leadership and the institution.

 

[MilEME09]

I don’t want to minimize what victims are bringing forward but if I was an adversary, I would use this crisis to the max extent possible to weaken our strategic leadership and the institution.

I would not be surprised, Russia did use Russel Williams against us in Latvia, trying to convince the population we would turn them into homosexual cross dressers. 100% China and Russia are pushing these stories more. I have said it before we aren't in a shooting war, but we are in a Cyber war, have been for years, and we are loosing. Covid and the anti vaccine movement is a perfect example of our adversaries using false information to cause unrest in the civilian population and brew civil unrest.

 

[Furniture]

That’s a very broad brush from a fairly limited number of data points. I can confirm there are many LCols and above that will not hesitate to use the disciplinary and administrative systems.

It is either you experienced a weak CoC or the reasons your wanted to pursue administrative actions were simply not justified in the end (while it is possible, two levels questioning proposed administrative measures is perhaps a sign that what you were proposing was not appropriate). Every story has a couple of versions. We only get to know yours.

100%

Just because the result you wanted isn't the end result of an an investigation, does not meant the investigation was flawed.

I don't know the CDS, but he raised a valid point... If there is no return after an accusation, why even investigate anything? Fire all accused, and in a year the CAF will be run by the Pte with the most attempts at BMQ.

 

[MilEME09]

100%

Just because the result you wanted isn't the end result of an an investigation, does not meant the investigation was flawed.

I don't know the CDS, but he raised a valid point... If there is no return after an accusation, why even investigate anything? Fire all accused, and in a year the CAF will be run by the Pte with the most attempts at BMQ.

Valid point, at the end of the day I think the CAF needs to create, or better yet created for them guide lines for these situations. If not charged, there needs to be a decision made about the member within a reasonable amount of time

 

[dimsum]

trying to convince the population we would turn them into homosexual cross dressers.

I'm a sample size of 1, but in my experience my LGBTQ friends have had the more "normal" relationships.

They're still together and happy, which is more than I can say for a whole whack of my hetero friends.

 

[ballz]

That’s a very broad brush from a fairly limited number of data points.

Where did I suggest it was anything more than an anecdote?

I can confirm there are many LCols and above that will not hesitate to use the disciplinary and administrative systems.

Don't be offended, but I won't take your word for it. The evidence I've seen suggests otherwise, and so has my experience.

It is either you experienced a weak CoC or the reasons your wanted to pursue administrative actions were simply not justified in the end (while it is possible, two levels questioning proposed administrative measures is perhaps a sign that what you were proposing was not appropriate). Every story has a couple of versions. We only get to know yours.

As expected, the knee-jerk reaction from some is always to try and lend the benefit of the doubt to institution... perhaps if we stopped giving the institution that benefit, we wouldn't be here. If 1/10th of the senior officers backed up their talk with real actions, we wouldn't have this thread.

 

[Jarnhamar]

We've reached a place where alleged accusations against senior officers, including decades old ones, seem to be taken seriously and investigated (almost to the point of being weaponized but that's another story).

The rest of the CAF hasn't reached this hair-trigger threshold yet. Various CoCs still **** off complaints, try to down play the misconduct, or go after the victim.

What happens if we do though?
What's going to happen to joe blow OC who after getting handsy with a 18 year old private at the X-Mas dinner isn't just given a talking to behind closed doors and the private told not to worry about it?
Or when a CSM can't intimidate a private into not reporting an SNCO because he's a really good guy who is just going through a rough divorce?

Can we afford to put 30% of the CAF on paid administrative leave while we develop a new DLN course?

 

[Journeyman]

100% China and Russia are pushing these stories more.

Not to mention the divisive threat of..... pineapple on pizza!!

 

[Halifax Tar]

As expected, the knee-jerk reaction from some is always to try and lend the benefit of the doubt to institution... perhaps if we stopped giving the institution that benefit, we wouldn't be here. If 1/10th of the senior officers backed up their talk with real actions, we wouldn't have this thread.

Agreed. Commitment to the institution should also mean culling the rotted chaff from.tye wheat when it's necessary, for the good of the institution.

 

[daftandbarmy]

We've reached a place where alleged accusations against senior officers, including decades old ones, seem to be taken seriously and investigated (almost to the point of being weaponized but that's another story).

The rest of the CAF hasn't reached this hair-trigger threshold yet. Various CoCs still **** off complaints, try to down play the misconduct, or go after the victim.

What happens if we do though?
What's going to happen to joe blow OC who after getting handsy with a 18 year old private at the X-Mas dinner isn't just given a talking to behind closed doors and the private told not to worry about it?
Or when a CSM can't intimidate a private into not reporting an SNCO because he's a really good guy who is just going through a rough divorce?

Can we afford to put 30% of the CAF on paid administrative leave while we develop a new DLN course?

Tell us more about that....

(See what I did there? ).

 

[Haggis]

Speaking of the PS, yea a Regional Director General would not create a whole new level of management and then appoint her boyfriend from another Department to one of those new nice paying jobs without a competition for the job would they?

Fake News! The PS is far more responsible and ethical than the CAF in the eyes of the public.

As long as said public doesn't look at the Federal Public Service Labour Relations Board decisions, that façade can be maintained.

 

[GR66]

We've reached a place where alleged accusations against senior officers, including decades old ones, seem to be taken seriously and investigated (almost to the point of being weaponized but that's another story).

The rest of the CAF hasn't reached this hair-trigger threshold yet. Various CoCs still **** off complaints, try to down play the misconduct, or go after the victim.

What happens if we do though?
What's going to happen to joe blow OC who after getting handsy with a 18 year old private at the X-Mas dinner isn't just given a talking to behind closed doors and the private told not to worry about it?
Or when a CSM can't intimidate a private into not reporting an SNCO because he's a really good guy who is just going through a rough divorce?

Can we afford to put 30% of the CAF on paid administrative leave while we develop a new DLN course?

What happens if you don't?

Edited to add: Seriously, isn't that how the CAF has arrived at this shyte-show? Tell an 18-year old Private that's been sexually assaulted by an OC "not to worry about it" because he's had a "talking to"??? You're OK that a CSM should "intimidate a Private" not to report a SNCO because he's a "really good guy"???.

If it really is 30% of the CAF that it totally OK with that then maybe they do need to be put on administrative leave...but not while a new DLN course is developed, but until they can be investigated and if appropriate, charged and released.

 

[kev994]

We've reached a place where alleged accusations against senior officers, including decades old ones, seem to be taken seriously and investigated (almost to the point of being weaponized but that's another story).

The rest of the CAF hasn't reached this hair-trigger threshold yet. Various CoCs still **** off complaints, try to down play the misconduct, or go after the victim.

What happens if we do though?
What's going to happen to joe blow OC who after getting handsy with a 18 year old private at the X-Mas dinner isn't just given a talking to behind closed doors and the private told not to worry about it?
Or when a CSM can't intimidate a private into not reporting an SNCO because he's a really good guy who is just going through a rough divorce?

Can we afford to put 30% of the CAF on paid administrative leave while we develop a new DLN course?

If we can’t keep our hands to ourselves then maybe we shouldn’t have that Xmas dinner, or maybe there shouldn’t be alcohol at it.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

If we can’t keep our hands to ourselves then maybe we shouldn’t have that Xmas dinner, or maybe there shouldn’t be alcohol at it.

So punish everyone, because we cannot bother to deal with the few?

 

[daftandbarmy]

So punish everyone, because we cannot bother to deal with the few?

Why not? The Navy did it:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/hmcs-whitehorse-incident-results-in-drinking-ban-on-navy-ships-1.2871521

 

[kev994]

So punish everyone, because we cannot bother to deal with the few?

The time to deal with the few is long gone, we’re in the middle of an emergency crisis, I say we do anything that has a chance of improving things.

 

[Happy Guy]

Ref: Sexual Harassment - STATSCAN

Some more information from STATSCAN regarding sexual harassment in 2020. In brief:
- In 2020, one in four women (25%) and one in six men (17%) reported having personally experienced inappropriate sexualized behaviours in their workplace.

- One in ten women (10%) personally experienced workplace discrimination based on gender, gender identity or sexual orientation in the year prior to the pandemic, compared with less than one in twenty men (4%).

- For women, experiences of inappropriate sexualized behaviour were most common for those working in certain occupations where men have historically outnumbered women.

- Women working in some occupations where they historically outnumbered men also experienced high rates of inappropriate sexualized behaviours in the year leading up the pandemic. For example, almost one in three women working in sales and service (32%) and health-related occupations (30%).

- One in three women targeted with sexually explicit materials at work says someone in authority was responsible

- Many women do not speak out about their experiences for fear of negative impact on their career.

We can assume that CAF members are a reflection of Cdn society so we can assume that the above stats also hold true for this institution. This means that the so far, in the CAF the rates of sexual harassment reporting, have been relatively low compared to society.

In my opinion OP HONOUR did help the CAF by highlighting poor behaviours which n turn brought about positive change. It will take time, years, before women are not treated as sex objects. Sexual harassment will not go away in the CAF or society but we can try to minimize the risk to women and other vulnerable populations, by pointing out and reporting such poor behaviour.

One thing to point out, as a matter of perspective. It appears, due to media exposure, more women are pointing sexual harassment in the CAF than other departments. I hope this means that women feel more empowered or safer to report sexual harassment in the CAF as compared to other federal departments where they are less protected.

Cheers

 

[Takeniteasy]

The CAF CoC has had ample time to address the systemic lack of faculty in addressing harassment and discrimination. There are plenty of examples and now a second review. Its complicated and hard to fix but when you encounter times to make a difference and you respond by saying "let the CoC take care of this, its a sensitive subject, you need to know your place," and face reprisals for trying to move forward with a formal complaint; you quickly see how the power structure yields to the institution and its so called socially conscience leaders.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If matters going back to, say, 1980 belong to the set, then absolutely every institution, organization, and corporation has a lot to deal with. All the men who ever patted a bum or worse didn't all end up in the CAF.