Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[KevinB]

I’m sure there has to be a clearly stated policy of what to do when criminal offences allegedly occur outside of Canada by CAF members, outside of just the NDA.

Firing Squad.

That would have worked once. The CSD had capital punishment long after it was removed from the CCC.

Unfortunately you can't have punishment without a trial and since he can't be tried ... he can't be shot.

🍻

If you're bringing back the Firing Squad - it needs legislation.
At the same time, the NDA is amended.
1. All GOFO ranks changed to appointments - so highest actual 'rank' in the CF is a COL.
2. GOFO Appointed COL's can be charged and tried as any other COL.

 

[Haggis]

What I’m saying is that there’s a noticeably absent group amongst all the so called offenders by comparison

Maybe they learned from mistakes made earlier in their careers or from those of their peer group?

 

[trigger324]

Maybe they learned from mistakes made earlier in their careers or from those of their peer group?

What makes them any different than a Senior, General, or Flag Officer then who you’d expect the same from?

 

[Haggis]

What makes them any different than a Senior, General, or Flag Officer then who you’d expect the same from?

Morals? Integrity? Ethics? Experience? Maturity? Pick one. Add one of your own.

As a WO/MWO/CWO I occasionally told my officer "Sir/ma'am, you can't/shouldn't do that." Often they listened. Sometimes they didn't.

 

[trigger324]

Morals? Integrity? Ethics? Experience? Maturity? Pick one.

All of those, I’d have expected to have been prerequisites fulfilled to become a GOFO. Yet here we are.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Forgive my ignorance (truly)

But if the incident happened onboard a Canadian warship, would the CCC not still apply even if the ship happens to be deployed?

And if not the Criminal Code of Canada, would local laws not be the ones applied?


(I’d have just assumed that as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces, if I sexually assaulted another member, while onboard a Royal Canadian Navy ship, that the Criminal Code of Canada would still apply to me.)

I’m sure there has to be a clearly stated policy of what to do when criminal offences allegedly occur outside of Canada by CAF members, outside of just the NDA.

Yes the CCC applies on RCN warships abroad, but through section 130 of the NDA.

 

[KevinB]

Morals? Integrity? Ethics? Experience? Maturity? Pick one. Add one of your own.

common sense to retire before the sins catch up...

 

[ArmyRick]

I challenge many of these GOFOs to start looking inwards. They are the senior of the senior leadership of the Canadian Forces. They should act in the most professional way possible and embrace the principles of integrity and accountability. Or how could they wear that uniform and look at themselves in the mirror?
If and when any warning flares of their professionalism or integrity is brought out, I personally feel they need to address it immediately and I would prefer publicly (they are the faces of the CAF to the nation).

When some transgression, poor judgement or slight mishap is found on their part, I truly feel they should own it and RESIGN. Do I expect the same of say a LT or a MAJ? Nope. They are much lower on the totem pole and their ability to damage the CAF is significantly lower. Note the first sentence in this paragraph.

For the outright unlawful or severely unethical actions or decisions, they need to be punted, full stop. A freaking general should know better than to propose to a corporal to go to a nude beach together (among many of the other questionable conduct of our GOFOs).

Some think the Canadian public hasn't noticed. They do. Sometimes for the worst. The public tends to only hear part of a story or think from the headlines that the whole CAF is one big biker gang or something similar. In the last 4-5 months, I have had to convince several relatives and close friends that this behaviour DOES NOT reflect the majority of the CAF.

 

[cyber_lass]

I challenge many of these GOFOs to start looking inwards. They are the senior of the senior leadership of the Canadian Forces. They should act in the most professional way possible and embrace the principles of integrity and accountability. Or how could they wear that uniform and look at themselves in the mirror?
If and when any warning flares of their professionalism or integrity is brought out, I personally feel they need to address it immediately and I would prefer publicly (they are the faces of the CAF to the nation).

When some transgression, poor judgement or slight mishap is found on their part, I truly feel they should own it and RESIGN. Do I expect the same of say a LT or a MAJ? Nope. They are much lower on the totem pole and their ability to damage the CAF is significantly lower. Note the first sentence in this paragraph.

For the outright unlawful or severely unethical actions or decisions, they need to be punted, full stop. A freaking general should know better than to propose to a corporal to go to a nude beach together (among many of the other questionable conduct of our GOFOs).

Some think the Canadian public hasn't noticed. They do. Sometimes for the worst. The public tends to only hear part of a story or think from the headlines that the whole CAF is one big biker gang or something similar. In the last 4-5 months, I have had to convince several relatives and close friends that this behaviour DOES NOT reflect the majority of the CAF.

You would think, but power often breeds a sense of entitlement. I am with you. And as woman about to be in the forces, my family is almost begging me not to at this point.

 

[The Bread Guy]

common sense to retire before the sins catch up...

Is that why they call it the medal "for 12 years of undetected crime" then? 😉

 

[KevinB]

You would think, but power often breeds a sense of entitlement. I am with you. And as woman about to be in the forces, my family is almost begging me not to at this point.

I would point out that at least the CF is starting to admit the faults and deal with it.
The PM still blames women for "misunderstanding him"

 

[FJAG]

...
1. All GOFO ranks changed to appointments - so highest actual 'rank' in the CF is a COL.
2. GOFO Appointed COL's can be charged and tried as any other COL.

Not quite. NDA s 21 provides for the rank structure of the CF by way of a schedule. All the GOFO ranks are part of that schedule and thereby a rank whether achieved through promotion or by way of appointment. Note that MCpl is not a rank but is purely an appointment.

Ranks of officers and non-commissioned members
21 (1) For the purposes of this Act, the ranks of the officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces shall be as set out in the schedule
(2) A person holding a rank set out in the schedule shall use, or be referred to by, a designation of rank prescribed in regulations made by the Governor in Council but only in the circumstances prescribed in those regulations.

Schedule (Section 21) Officers 1 General 2 Lieutenant-General 3 Major-General 4 Brigadier-General 5 Colonel 6 Lieutenant-Colonel 7 Major 8 Captain 9 Lieutenant 10 Second Lieutenant 11 Officer Cadet

Non-Commissioned Members 12 Chief Warrant Officer 13 Master Warrant Officer 14 Warrant Officer 15 Sergeant 16 Corporal 17 Private

Sorry but the CF is screwed. We need an amendment to the NDA and QR&Os that diverts persons excluded from the charging and disciplinary process to give power to someone to charge and try and punish. My preferred method is diversion to trial by a civilian superior court justice.

🍻

 

[MilEME09]

I would point out that at least the CF is starting to admit the faults and deal with it.
The PM still blames women for "misunderstanding him"

Admiting it great but we need to fix the faults too, starting with our ability to prosecute the senior ranges without the appearance of Bias.

 

[KevinB]

Not quite. NDA s 21 provides for the rank structure of the CF by way of a schedule. All the GOFO ranks are part of that schedule and thereby a rank whether achieved through promotion or by way of appointment. Note that MCpl is not a rank but is purely an appointment.

But that could be changed.

Sorry but the CF is screwed. We need an amendment to the NDA and QR&Os that diverts persons excluded from the charging and disciplinary process to give power to someone to charge and try and punish. My preferred method is diversion to trial by a civilian superior court justice.

🍻

I would suggest a Hybrid trial - with a jury of CF personnel - 3 JCM, 3 SNCO's, 3 JrO, 3SO's (1 from each service), overseen by a Federal Judge who is also on the CMA Board.

 

[daftandbarmy]

But that could be changed.

I would suggest a Hybrid trial - with a jury of CF personnel - 3 JCM, 3 SNCO's, 3 JrO, 3SO's (1 from each service), overseen by a Federal Judge who is also on the CMA Board.

If we're not careful, we might replicate this infamous committee:


Committee of Public Safety, French Comité De Salut Public, political body of the French Revolution that gained virtual dictatorial control over France during the Reign of Terror (September 1793 to July 1794).


The Committee of Public Safety was set up on April 6, 1793, during one of the crises of the Revolution, when France was beset by foreign and civil war. The new committee was to provide for the defense of the nation against its enemies, foreign and domestic, and to oversee the already existing organs of executive government. The members of the committee, at first numbering 9 and later increased to 12, were elected by the National Convention (representative assembly) for a period of one month and were eligible for reelection.

Committee of Public Safety | Facts, History, & Members

Committee of Public Safety, French Comité De Salut Public, political body of the French Revolution that gained virtual dictatorial control over France during the Reign of Terror (September 1793 to July 1794). The Committee of Public Safety was set up on April 6, 1793, during one of the crises...

www.britannica.com

 

[KevinB]

If we're not careful, we might replicate this infamous committee:


Committee of Public Safety, French Comité De Salut Public, political body of the French Revolution that gained virtual dictatorial control over France during the Reign of Terror (September 1793 to July 1794).


The Committee of Public Safety was set up on April 6, 1793, during one of the crises of the Revolution, when France was beset by foreign and civil war. The new committee was to provide for the defense of the nation against its enemies, foreign and domestic, and to oversee the already existing organs of executive government. The members of the committee, at first numbering 9 and later increased to 12, were elected by the National Convention (representative assembly) for a period of one month and were eligible for reelection.

Committee of Public Safety | Facts, History, & Members

Committee of Public Safety, French Comité De Salut Public, political body of the French Revolution that gained virtual dictatorial control over France during the Reign of Terror (September 1793 to July 1794). The Committee of Public Safety was set up on April 6, 1793, during one of the crises...

www.britannica.com

Everyone needs a good Reign of Terror now and then.

I was originally going to suggest a Star Chamber made up of CF members at a random draw - but I thought that might be a little too totalitarian.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It's the armed forces. Trial by combat.

 

[GR66]

It's the armed forces. Trial by combat.

Pistol duels.....oh yeah...waiting on pistols....

Aerial Dogfights??? Oh, waiting on new fighters....

105mm Howitzer Duel? Can't find two working guns....

ATGM battle?.....uhhhhh....

Boot toss???.....errrrr....

 

[Jarnhamar]

What I’m saying is that there’s a noticeably absent group amongst all the so called offenders by comparison

Numbers play a part. Number of ptes and cpls in a company vs number of WOs.

I also look at the court martial list now and then and have seen said ranks in there along with everyone else. Looks like they're just not currently up for anything.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Pistol duels.....oh yeah...waiting on pistols....

Aerial Dogfights??? Oh, waiting on new fighters....

105mm Howitzer Duel? Can't find two working guns....

ATGM battle?.....uhhhhh....

Boot toss???.....errrrr....

Our leaders?? I'm thinking Powerpoint Death Matches