Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[FormerHorseGuard]

I wonder if anyone dug deep into private business world how many CEOs or higher ranking executives would be gone. Not approving of what has happened or what is happening. But sure hope the up and coming leadership have woken up and realize one bad mistake can lead to a public disaster.

 

[trigger324]

Numbers play a part. Number of ptes and cpls in a company vs number of WOs.

I also look at the court martial list now and then and have seen said ranks in there along with everyone else. Looks like they're just not currently up for anything.

All points taken and already considered.

 

[FJAG]

I wonder if anyone dug deep into private business world how many CEOs or higher ranking executives would be gone. Not approving of what has happened or what is happening. But sure hope the up and coming leadership have woken up and realize one bad mistake can lead to a public disaster.

And then there are those paragons of higher education and morality - the universities and churches.

🍻

 

[MilEME09]

Pistol duels.....oh yeah...waiting on pistols....

Aerial Dogfights??? Oh, waiting on new fighters....

105mm Howitzer Duel? Can't find two working guns....

ATGM battle?.....uhhhhh....

Boot toss???.....errrrr....

Golden eye style, Slappers

 

[HiTechComms]

I wonder if anyone dug deep into private business world how many CEOs or higher ranking executives would be gone. Not approving of what has happened or what is happening. But sure hope the up and coming leadership have woken up and realize one bad mistake can lead to a public disaster.

As some one that worked with a lot of executives, high, mid and even low ranking private sector individuals with any sort of management duties. I think you would be very disappointed. The private sector deals with this in a very efficient format and manner. Payouts are huge, HR departments are supper attentive to complaints, zero tolerance policy, most will resign or get fired. Most VIP types also know better, because their life, liberty, reputation and pay depends on it.

There is a very good reason why most private sector has Open Space type office spaces, most meetings have more then 2 people in the room. Open door policies, cameras are everywhere, lots also record meetings (I do), monitoring and auditing of communications, Most meeting rooms have glass walls (literally glass). I would never have a subordinate in my office of the opposite sex with out another person in the room, never ever with a closed door. As a personal anecdote, knew a fund manager at a large investment firm that would refuse to get on an elevator with a woman.

Most male execs I know follow Mike Pence rules, most don't mentor nor meet outside of the office with the opposite sex. If there are meetings they are always in a Public setting. To be honest with you the female managers and execs do the same.

Office Romances are a big no no these days. Lots of contracts have explicitly forbade/discouraged such behavior as well. I had contracts that stated do not engage in fraternization (foreign contracts)

I bet there are incidents but they are dealt with quickly and efficiently and its been like this for quite some time. Have heard stories of guys telling and advising other that this has been going on for like 30+ years. There is also a very high level of Paranoia in the private sector. Not saying this is good or bad but it is what it is. HR departments exist to protect the company not the workers.

 

[Good2Golf]

Well that’s one data point.

Another is that CEO-elect of one very large US defense company is caught having an inappropriate relationship with a female subordinate on the corporate jet, fired and becomes….CEO of another very large US defense company. Maybe your previous experience wasn’t at the commercial equivalent of the GOFO/CDS level?

 

[Halifax Tar]

As some one that worked with a lot of executives, high, mid and even low ranking private sector individuals with any sort of management duties. I think you would be very disappointed. The private sector deals with this in a very efficient format and manner. Payouts are huge, HR departments are supper attentive to complaints, zero tolerance policy, most will resign or get fired. Most VIP types also know better, because their life, liberty, reputation and pay depends on it.

There is a very good reason why most private sector has Open Space type office spaces, most meetings have more then 2 people in the room. Open door policies, cameras are everywhere, lots also record meetings (I do), monitoring and auditing of communications, Most meeting rooms have glass walls (literally glass). I would never have a subordinate in my office of the opposite sex with out another person in the room, never ever with a closed door. As a personal anecdote, knew a fund manager at a large investment firm that would refuse to get on an elevator with a woman.

Most male execs I know follow Mike Pence rules, most don't mentor nor meet outside of the office with the opposite sex. If there are meetings they are always in a Public setting. To be honest with you the female managers and execs do the same.

Office Romances are a big no no these days. Lots of contracts have explicitly forbade/discouraged such behavior as well. I had contracts that stated do not engage in fraternization (foreign contracts)

I bet there are incidents but they are dealt with quickly and efficiently and its been like this for quite some time. Have heard stories of guys telling and advising other that this has been going on for like 30+ years. There is also a very high level of Paranoia in the private sector. Not saying this is good or bad but it is what it is. HR departments exist to protect the company not the workers.

I think I have said before my father was a Warden in the Fed Correction service. He's had to deal with guards sleeping with inmates, that I am lead to believe, is dealt with swiftly. But internal sexual misconduct I know they have struggles with as well.

 

[daftandbarmy]

As some one that worked with a lot of executives, high, mid and even low ranking private sector individuals with any sort of management duties. I think you would be very disappointed. The private sector deals with this in a very efficient format and manner. Payouts are huge, HR departments are supper attentive to complaints, zero tolerance policy, most will resign or get fired. Most VIP types also know better, because their life, liberty, reputation and pay depends on it.

There is a very good reason why most private sector has Open Space type office spaces, most meetings have more then 2 people in the room. Open door policies, cameras are everywhere, lots also record meetings (I do), monitoring and auditing of communications, Most meeting rooms have glass walls (literally glass). I would never have a subordinate in my office of the opposite sex with out another person in the room, never ever with a closed door. As a personal anecdote, knew a fund manager at a large investment firm that would refuse to get on an elevator with a woman.

Most male execs I know follow Mike Pence rules, most don't mentor nor meet outside of the office with the opposite sex. If there are meetings they are always in a Public setting. To be honest with you the female managers and execs do the same.

Office Romances are a big no no these days. Lots of contracts have explicitly forbade/discouraged such behavior as well. I had contracts that stated do not engage in fraternization (foreign contracts)

I bet there are incidents but they are dealt with quickly and efficiently and its been like this for quite some time. Have heard stories of guys telling and advising other that this has been going on for like 30+ years. There is also a very high level of Paranoia in the private sector. Not saying this is good or bad but it is what it is. HR departments exist to protect the company not the workers.

Well said!

I can confirm this is pretty much the case with the (hundreds) of civilian sector organizations I've worked with over the past couple of decades.

The CAF is eons behind, in more ways than one.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Payouts are huge,

VAC facilitates some very big payouts and cash for life for CAF members (not as big as civilian settlements of course)

I know a retired cpl who's at +$1M and gets a check every month for more than I bring home working.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Lots of privates and corporals in that list with sexual assault charges against them. Contravenes the "it's the dinosaurs" mantra.

The "new" generation....my general observation is they are less self-disciplined, decide which regs and rules they will follow and don't have the obediance (military context) that was more normal IMO at least, 2 - 3 decades ago.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

But what pronouns should we use

In my case, I am quite comfortable if the jr ranks use "Warrant" "Warrant Officer" "Warrant EITS"....

Not as accepted; "hey" "sup?" or "brah".

 

[Eye In The Sky]

It wouldn’t. That’s why the whole point of the NDA.

There'd be no traction with 103.61 or 103.615 at all?

103.61 – OFFENCES AGAINST OTHER CANADIAN LAW​

103.615 – OFFENCES UNDER LAW APPLICABLE OUTSIDE CANADA​

 

[Eye In The Sky]

You would think, but power often breeds a sense of entitlement. I am with you. And as woman about to be in the forces, my family is almost begging me not to at this point.

I just want to point out....there are a handful of stories of General/Flag Officers who are in some rather serious trouble. There are many more (tens of thousands) General and Flag Officers, Senior Officer, Junior Officers, and all manner of Non-commissioned Member ranking from CWO/CP01 to S3/Pte/Avr who are not quity of or being accused of the same offences.

The barrel has some bad apples, for certain, and some of those are the ones on the top....but the whole barrel is not rotten.

Good luck at BMQ; remember, YOU are the future of the CAF and YOU can be a part of the change you'd like to see happening 'yesterday, today and tomorrow'.

 

[KevinB]

I wonder if anyone dug deep into private business world how many CEOs or higher ranking executives would be gone. Not approving of what has happened or what is happening. But sure hope the up and coming leadership have woken up and realize one bad mistake can lead to a public disaster.

I want to point out that you cannot draw a parallel to the civilian world with this.
Honor, Honesty, and Integrity are not requirements in the civilian world - and they don't have a Queen's Commission to go forth and command.

Tons of crap happens elsewhere - that is life -- this issue isn't "well its okay over there" - the issue is certain members and commissioned officers in the CF chose to ignore rules they had sworn to uphold -- some of these personnel where Generals and Admirals - which points to the fact that some have been doing this most likely for quite some time, and at the most senior level it can't currently be addressed via the NDA.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Keep the Army in the Public Eye they said.... but they didn't say how:

Head of Canadian military intelligence school relieved of command after misconduct investigation
Lt.-Col. Raphael Guay now serving as a staff officer in Ottawa

The former commandant of the Canadian Forces School of Military Intelligence is continuing to serve in the military after being relieved of his command following an investigation into allegations of inappropriate conduct.

In April, the Canadian Forces temporarily removed Lt.-Col. Raphael Guay from his duties overseeing the school in Kingston, Ont.

CBC News has now confirmed that the military decided months ago that Guay would not return to his command post because of the findings coming from the unit's disciplinary investigation.

"Additionally, other administrative and corrective measures have been taken, including the cancellation of the former commandant's promotion and planned posting," wrote Department of National Defence (DND) spokesperson Daniel Le Bouthillier in a statement to CBC News.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/head-military-intelligence-school-demoted-claims-inappropriate-conduct-1.6215222

 

[HiTechComms]

In my case, I am quite comfortable if the jr ranks use "Warrant" "Warrant Officer" "Warrant EITS"....

Not as accepted; "hey" "sup?" or "brah".

We use "Client", "User", "Operator", "Individual", actual name in Signature, or on user file when corresponding or speaking with said person. Got so use to using "We" that "I" doesn't make it into most conversations.

If you point a finger at some one make sure there are not three pointed back at you.. So its the Knife hand strategy. My weapon of choice, Microsoft Outlook!

 

[OldSolduer]

I think I have said before my father was a Warden in the Fed Correction service. He's had to deal with guards sleeping with inmates, that I am lead to believe, is dealt with swiftly. But internal sexual misconduct I know they have struggles with as well.

I'm in Corrections and yes we have had those issues as well.

 

[Ostrozac]

The "new" generation....my general observation is they are less self-disciplined, decide which regs and rules they will follow and don't have the obediance (military context) that was more normal IMO at least, 2 - 3 decades ago.

I’m not so sure about that, as a general statement. I joined 3 decades ago, and there were certainly plenty of people from my generation that liked to play fast and loose with rules and regulations — after all it’s hard to blame Somalia on the millennials, they were in primary school at the time.

I will grant you that they seem a little more individualistic, my generation seemed to rebel in packs, but that might be unavoidable culture creep — talk of the “Me Generation” dates back to the 1970’s.

Besides, thanks to an ever closer global culture, not only do our close allies have similar culture creep, so do our enemies, so it’s a bit of a level playing field, in some respects.

 

[Kilted]

Half the upcoming courts martial are for sexual assault. We aren’t just talking an historical issue here.

Upcoming courts martial - Canada.ca

List of upcoming courts martial by date and/or by province.

www.canada.ca

It's getting all too common to see another name of someone I know every time I check that page.

 

[kev994]

There'd be no traction with 103.61 or 103.615 at all?

103.61 – OFFENCES AGAINST OTHER CANADIAN LAW​

103.615 – OFFENCES UNDER LAW APPLICABLE OUTSIDE CANADA​

You’re still using the NDA. My understanding is that since there isn’t anyone in the military who outranks the CDS there isn’t anyone who can charge him under the NDA. That’s the whole controversy with his predecessor being ‘above the law.’