Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[H11F]

The only thing I ever hear is complaints that it’s always empty. Related note: I did POCT recently and the JAG indicated that under the new summary trial system about to drop there will not be detention as a punishment available for COs.

This is also correct. Bill C-77 will see the replacement of the Summary Trials system with the Summary Hearings system. A new list of service infractions will be published through QR&O, eventually, which will be the basis for the summary hearings. Tied to that is the lowered powers of punishment - specifically, no detention. Code of Service Discipline offences will continue to be heard through the courts martial system.

 

[OldSolduer]

The only thing I ever hear is complaints that it’s always empty. Related note: I did POCT recently and the JAG indicated that under the new summary trial system about to drop there will not be detention as a punishment available for COs.

A double edged sword IMO.

If DB were to close what would be the alternative? Civilian jail? That’s not a good solution that I can tell you.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . Tied to that is the lowered powers of punishment - specifically, no detention.

Is that specifically lowered powers of punishment for COs (i.e. summary trials) or is the punishment of "detention" (as opposed to "imprisonment") to be eliminated altogether? Will courts martial continue to have "detention" as a punishment?

The notes to QR&O 104.09 – DETENTION includes

(A) In keeping with its disciplinary nature, the punishment of detention seeks to rehabilitate service detainees, by re-instilling in them the habit of obedience in a structured, military setting, through a regime of training that emphasizes the institutional values and skills that distinguish the Canadian Forces member from other members of society. Specialized treatment and counselling programmes to deal with drug and alcohol dependencies and similar health problems will also be made available to those service detainees who require them. Once the sentence of detention has been served, the member will normally be returned to his or her unit without any lasting effect on his or her career.

Whereas notes to QR&O 104.04 – IMPRISONMENT FOR SHORTER TERM states

(A) Although specialized treatment and counselling programmes to deal with drug and alcohol dependencies and similar health problems will be made available to a person serving a term of imprisonment, a member serving a sentence that includes imprisonment will in most cases be considered unfit for further military service. As a result, service prisoners and service convicts will ordinarily not be subjected to the same regime of training that service detainees undergo. In certain cases, exceptions may be made for service prisoners serving a short term of imprisonment provided that it has either been decided to retain the member or no decision to release the member has been made but the circumstances suggest that retention in the Canadian Forces is likely. A punishment of imprisonment will be considered to be of short duration where the term does not exceed 90 days.

(B) Service prisoners and service convicts typically require an intensive programme of retraining and rehabilitation to equip them for their return to society following completion of the term of incarceration. Civilian prisons and penitentiaries are uniquely equipped to provide such opportunities to inmates. Therefore, to facilitate their reintegration into society, service prisoners and service convicts who are to be released from the Canadian Forces will typically be transferred to a civilian prison or penitentiary as soon as practical within the first 30 days following the date of sentencing. The member will ordinarily be released from the Canadian Forces before such a transfer is effected.

If detention was eliminated altogether as a punishment, does that mean that "rehabilitation" (and return to the ranks - a second chance as it were) is no longer considered a course of action?

 

[dapaterson]

Powers of punishment of COs will be constrained; a court martial will still have those options.

 

[H11F]

Is that specifically lowered powers of punishment for COs (i.e. summary trials) or is the punishment of "detention" (as opposed to "imprisonment") to be eliminated altogether? Will courts martial continue to have "detention" as a punishment?

Aye, what @dapaterson just said above.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Powers of punishment of COs will be constrained; a court martial will still have those options.

So, if detention remains a CSD punishment then there remains a requirement for a "detention barracks" even if it is mostly empty.

 

[H11F]

So, if detention remains a CSD punishment then there remains a requirement for a "detention barracks" even if it is mostly empty.

I'd like to think so, but logic doesn't always apply. Armour and air remain threats in the world, and yet our ability to deal with them...

I honestly know very little about CFSPDB, other than that dated video that floated around, so I cannot speak to any future intentions with the establishment. I suspect it would remain, but again, no clue.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Powers of punishment of COs will be constrained; a court martial will still have those options.

I recommend a diversion program be delegated to COs to help keep offenders on the straight and narrow.

It should also do wonders for their fitness

 

[FJAG]

Powers of punishment of COs will be constrained; a court martial will still have those options.

Just an observation from reading the fine print and unless I'm completely out to lunch, while a COs power to sentence someone to detention is gone, the sentence of reduction in rank is expanded. It used to be under s 163(3)(b) of the NDA that a CO could reduce by "one" rank. Under s 167.1(a) set out in Bill 77 it now just says "reduction in rank". s 162.8 sets out some limitations which include a provision as to some regulations. I'm not aware of any regulations that impact this but they may very well be new regulations under the revised Act.

Bill 77 is here. I expect we're still awaiting a number of regulations to be made (such as one listing what the service infractions are) before it is put into force.

🍻

 

[MilEME09]

Canadian veteran says he was forced out of military after sexual assaults, misconduct - Kingston | Globalnews.ca

Justin Hudson says he was consistently sexually harassed, sometimes in front of groups of people, and claims his superiors were made aware of the issue but nothing was done.

globalnews.ca

Well public affairs is the busiest trade in the CAF
now. This story raises some questions in my mind...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I'd like to think so, but logic doesn't always apply. Armour and air remain threats in the world, and yet our ability to deal with them...

I honestly know very little about CFSPDB, other than that dated video that floated around, so I cannot speak to any future intentions with the establishment. I suspect it would remain, but again, no clue.

I’ve toured the DB. It is an outstanding facility. The staff is dedicated to rehabilitating soldiers in every possible way. Not that I would ever want spend a night there as a guest…

 

[dangerboy]

I’ve toured the DB. It is an outstanding facility. The staff is dedicated to rehabilitating soldiers in every possible way. Not that I would ever want spend a night there as a guest…

A lot of people do not know about or downplay the rehabilitation services that DB offers, they only look at the punishment aspects of the detention barracks. It is easy to punish, a lot hard to rehabilitate.

 

[dimsum]

Canadian veteran says he was forced out of military after sexual assaults, misconduct - Kingston | Globalnews.ca

Justin Hudson says he was consistently sexually harassed, sometimes in front of groups of people, and claims his superiors were made aware of the issue but nothing was done.

globalnews.ca

Well public affairs is the busiest trade in the CAF
now. This story raises some questions in my mind...

I thought that article sounded familiar, then I realized it was posted on Saturday.

'I felt completely betrayed:' Canadian veteran speaks out on sexual assault

A Canadian veteran has come forward to speak about being sexually assaulted during training, saying he felt 'completely betrayed' by the chain of command.

www.ctvnews.ca

Oh boy get ready for a few more cards to fall

 

[MilEME09]

I thought that article sounded familiar, then I realized it was posted on Saturday.

And yet sounds slightly different

 

[OldSolduer]

I thought that article sounded familiar, then I realized it was posted on Saturday.

Maybe I’m biased- I am - but I only recall one attempt of a male in male assault in the unit. He was caught and released in less than a month

 

[ModlrMike]

Had an email today that nominated me to sit on a CM, which I will likely not get selected for due to language reasons. I thought I would look up the case on the CM calendar, and while there I noticed that 22 of 39 CM between now and June 22 are related to sexual assault. I admit that I can't remember a time where there were so many SA cases. Pte and Cpl make up the lion's share of the accused.

 

[FJAG]

Had an email today that nominated me to sit on a CM, which I will likely not get selected for due to language reasons. I thought I would look up the case on the CM calendar, and while there I noticed that 22 of 39 CM between now and June 22 are related to sexual assault. I admit that I can't remember a time where there were so many SA cases. Pte and Cpl make up the lion's share of the accused.

And yet the press says that the CAF isn't taking it seriously.

 

[SupersonicMax]

And yet the press says that the CAF isn't taking it seriously.

Just like an increase in flight safety incident reporting isn’t necessarily a sign that things are worst, the increase im CM could simply be an increase in reporting rather than an increase in assaults. I view an increase in reporting a great thing. It means people are more comfortable reporting those events, which is a good step forward.

 

[dimsum]

Just like an increase in flight safety incident reporting isn’t necessarily a sign that things are worst, the increase im CM could simply be an increase in reporting rather than an increase in assaults. I view an increase in reporting a great thing. It means people are more comfortable reporting those events, which is a good step forward.

Bingo.

 

[KevinB]

Bingo.

But that is UNpossible