Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[mariomike]

Women can be just as mysogonistic as men and sometimes worse.

I don't have any scientific data to support my opinion, but I believe a female work partner has a soothing and calming effect on a man.

Just say, "Yes, Dear."

 

[Jarnhamar]

I don't have any scientific data to support my opinion, but I believe a female work partner has a soothing and calming effect on a man.

Just say, "Yes, Dear."

Women absolutely love being called Dear and other pet names by male coworkers.

 

[mariomike]

I think "Yes, Dear" was the correct answer my partner wanted to hear. With the emphasis on the word "yes".

Unless her sentence started, "You know what your problem is?"

I only had one female work partner, so you are probably more of an expert.

​

 

[SupersonicMax]

I think "Yes, Dear" was the answer my partner liked to hear. With the emphasis on the word "yes".

Unless her sentence started, "You know what your problem is?"

I only worked with one woman, so you are probably more of an expert.

​

Calling someone that is not your wife « Dear » can be seen as disrespectful and also as a means to establish a power relationship. In professional setting, I strictly use neutral language and tone.

 

[mariomike]

Calling someone that is not your wife « Dear » can be seen as disrespectful and also as a means to establish a power relationship. In professional setting, I strictly use neutral language and tone.

Power? She was the boss in our partnership. That's where the "Yes" comes in. You guys seem focused on the second word.

Professional setting? We weren't in an office. Just two people stuck alone in a station or automoble with each other for company.

She was the best partner I ever had.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Power? She was the boss in our partnership. That's where the "Yes" comes in. You guys seem focused on the second word.

Professional setting? We weren't in an office. Just two people stuck alone in a station or automoble with each other for company.

She was the best partner I ever had.

There are multiple types of power, one of which is derived from a position and another by more informal cues. Since it is your job, I would argue this is a professional setting. Just like I despise when someone (of any age) calls me « hun, » many women hate being called pet names…. I would never recommend anyone calling their female co-workers « dear. »

 

[mariomike]

I would never recommend anyone calling their female co-workers « dear. »

It always had a "Yes" in front of it.

If you think that was bad, she had a pet name for me. I wasn't offended.

After all these years, I'll have to ask her on Facebook if she was as bothered as you guys seem to be. Hope she doesn't unfriend me.

 

[CBH99]

There are multiple types of power, one of which is derived from a position and another by more informal cues. Since it is your job, I would argue this is a professional setting. Just like I despise when someone (of any age) calls me « hun, » many women hate being called pet names…. I would never recommend anyone calling their female co-workers « dear. »

With the exception, as I’ve observed anyway, of when a handsome & polished British man calls them “luv” in a passing manner.

I work with a well built, handsome, very polite British guy. In the office, or anytime we are our & about, a woman hands him or does anything for him, he will always say “Thank You Luv…”

That man has a fan club, I tell you 😅 🇬🇧

 

[OldSolduer]

That’s the excuse? We can’t control impulses? Are we Neanderthals or what?

Yes we are - and Neanderthals were a completely different species btw.

Millions of years of evolution will not be undone by a few orders or guidelines. That’s evident.

 

[daftandbarmy]

With the exception, as I’ve observed anyway, of when a handsome & polished British man calls them “luv” in a passing manner.

I work with a well built, handsome, very polite British guy. In the office, or anytime we are our & about, a woman hands him or does anything for him, he will always say “Thank You Luv…”

That man has a fan club, I tell you 😅 🇬🇧

 

[mariomike]

Since it is your job, I would argue this is a professional setting.

Although my "professional setting" had only one female partner, in a city with many hospitals, it also included many nurses.

I liked one in particular so much I married her.

I despise when someone (of any age) calls me « hun, »

I've been called worse.

With the exception, as I’ve observed anyway, of when a handsome & polished British man calls them “luv” in a passing manner.

I work with a well built, handsome, very polite British guy. In the office, or anytime we are our & about, a woman hands him or does anything for him, he will always say “Thank You Luv…”

That man has a fan club, I tell you 😅 🇬🇧

I bet he does.

 

[CountDC]

Have to admit I am a bit confused on some of this probably due to lack of experience and knowledge outside of the military.

I see a lot of calling for an outside group to deal with all sexual investigations with the most quoted reason as the military cannot charge the CDS under our system. Often the push I see is that these cases would be handed over to outside police agencies. Now I know from experience that the military can and has handed sexual assault case to local authorities for what ever reason rather than dealing with it in house so that is already an option. The area I do not have the knowledge on and am wondering about is that some of the cases appear to me to be sexual misconduct which the military has regulations on but does the civilian world have the same? Using the CDS example apparently it was a long term affair that started when they were equals and continued until he retired which due to promotions and appointments crossed into him eventually being in a position of power over her which the military frowns on. In the civilian world would this be a criminal matter?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Have to admit I am a bit confused on some of this probably due to lack of experience and knowledge outside of the military.

I see a lot of calling for an outside group to deal with all sexual investigations with the most quoted reason as the military cannot charge the CDS under our system. Often the push I see is that these cases would be handed over to outside police agencies. Now I know from experience that the military can and has handed sexual assault case to local authorities for what ever reason rather than dealing with it in house so that is already an option. The area I do not have the knowledge on and am wondering about is that some of the cases appear to me to be sexual misconduct which the military has regulations on but does the civilian world have the same? Using the CDS example apparently it was a long term affair that started when they were equals and continued until he retired which due to promotions and appointments crossed into him eventually being in a position of power over her which the military frowns on. In the civilian world would this be a criminal matter?

The CDS isn't in criminal trouble for his affair, he is in trouble for his attempt to cover up said affair.

 

[QV]

The CDS isn't in criminal trouble for his affair, he is in trouble for his attempt to cover up said affair.

I guess we'll see if it is a crime to want private non-criminal matters to stay private.

 

[Good2Golf]

I guess we'll see if it is a crime to want private non-criminal matters to stay private.

When you’re not married (hence no element of spousal non-incrimination) and you attempt to influence someone to ‘agree’ to a situation that did not exist for subsequent testimony (ie. to lie) to a judicially-supported investigation, it has gone beyond wanting “private non-criminal matters to stay private.”

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I guess we'll see if it is a crime to want private non-criminal matters to stay private.

I should have added: allegedly to that 😁

 

[QV]

When you’re not married (hence no element of spousal non-incrimination) and you attempt to influence someone to ‘agree’ to a situation that did not exist for subsequent testimony (ie. to lie) to a judicially-supported investigation, it has gone beyond wanting “private non-criminal matters to stay private.”

Once the police determined no sex assault or other crime existed, the investigation should be over. To lie about the existence of an affair to protect from personal embarrassment is not material to the commission of a crime because it was already established there was no crime in this.

It seems to me this is a very cheap jab at the former CDS.

Ask the currently serving police officers how many people get charged with obstruct for asking someone to lie about a personal matter, I can't think that number is very high especially in cases where the police have determined no crime has taken place.

Even accusers of sex assault who later confess they lied to the police are rarely if ever charged with public mischief, and that is by far a more serious matter.

 

[brihard]

Once the police determined no sex assault or other crime existed, the investigation should be over. To lie about the existence of an affair to protect from personal embarrassment is not material to the commission of a crime because it was already established there was no crime in this.

It seems to me this is a very cheap jab at the former CDS.

Ask the currently serving police officers how many people get charged with obstruct for asking someone to lie about a personal matter, I can't think that number is very high especially in cases where the police have determined no crime has taken place.

Even accusers of sex assault who later confess they lied to the police are rarely if ever charged with public mischief, and that is by far a more serious matter.

Was an investigation being conducted to determine if offences may have been committed under the National Defense Act Code of Service Discipline? Crim Code obstruction doesn’t have to rely on a criminal predicate offence. You can go Crim Code obstruction for someone giving you a fake name at a traffic stop. The elements of the offence of obstruction allow for numerous different fact sets.

Clearly there was at least enough information available for someone to feel comfortable laying a charge and for crown to b going with it. Might be we need to wait to see how this plays out.

 

[CountDC]

The CDS isn't in criminal trouble for his affair, he is in trouble for his attempt to cover up said affair.

I get that but it does not cover what I was asking. The government and public has pushed for outside agency investigation of matters based on his affair and the military not able to prosecute him as CDS. How having this investigated by an outside agency would help? I think the RCMP or local police would have looked at this and in seconds determined there was no criminal action to it, only in the military does this have any form of possible criminal tone that I am aware of. If the military investigators were to find a case for sexual assault then they could hand it over to local authorities for legal action which has been done in at least one case I know of.

Basically I am trying to fathom the benefit of having outside investigators vice our military other than for political grand standing by mister "I am sorry our perception of events are different" groper PM.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I get that but it does not cover what I was asking. The government and public has pushed for outside agency investigation of matters based on his affair and the military not able to prosecute him as CDS. How having this investigated by an outside agency would help? I think the RCMP or local police would have looked at this and in seconds determined there was no criminal action to it, only in the military does this have any form of possible criminal tone that I am aware of. If the military investigators were to find a case for sexual assault then they could hand it over to local authorities for legal action which has been done in at least one case I know of.

Basically I am trying to fathom the benefit of having outside investigators vice our military other than for political grand standing by mister "I am sorry our perception of events are different" groper PM.

It eliminates the perception of inside interference and bias. It's a political move my dude.

The results of which will probably result in less cases moving forward in any sort of way.

Has anyone ever considered that the Government doesn't actually want anything to change because they are actually, politically speaking, quite happy with the political status quo?

The CAF continues to provide a valuable doormat they can beat with a broom from time to time. 😁